Don't be a topic nazi. People can discuss this topic if they want. There are other topics on the front page right now that have been discussed many times before. Super shoes, moderation policies, gas prices, etc. If you're not interested in the GOAT debate, here's a pro tip for you: Don't click on this thread again. Create your own thread on the real games you want to talk about.
Wait, people can discuss the topic if they want?! Wow, thanks for enlightening me, I had no idea. 🙄
It’s a bit pathetic that people are sensitive enough to interpret someone judging them for talking about some lame sh*t as being told they’re not allowed to talk about it. Nah dude, you’re clearly allowed to talk about whatever topic you want including this one. It’s still lame and you’re still a square for thinking that the GOAT debate is remotely interesting.
Well is there a reason you have to get involved? This is one thread and you jump in and say you’re not interested. Again. And again.
You can do both. Watch playoff basketball and still have discussions. Odd that you cannot understand that. The games don’t last all day.
Where would you slot Lebron amongst the all-time greats?
#1 if you've been able to enjoy basketball without old people trying to compare everything to Jordan you'd realize LeBron is on the same level of greatness as Jordan. In a team sport with different positions one guy seen as the goat might have different responsibilities than the other. LeBron MJ and Kareem all play different positions.
Another crazy thing about LeBron is he's now played in 3 different NBA Era's and adapted every time.
The most prominent Jordan argument is the 6-0 finals record. This is massively overblown. The 90's were literally watered down with expansion teams(4 of them being on the East Coast). Which is why it was harder to win in the 80's and 2000s compared to the 90s. It isn't a coincidence the bulls went 72-10 with prime Jordan and Pippen. Mj averaged 30 against the Hornets their first year in the league lol.
And anyone saying winning six finals is better than going to 10 total and 8 straight while winning 4 of them. Tell me about the time you just missed out on qualifying for Nationals and didn't go and tell me how that was better than going and losing. I personally qualified for Nationals three different times and have not run in a single one so that kills me hearing nonsense like that.
The combination of the internet blowing up media blowing up and the timing of Jordans prime All the perfect Storm to make him appear as the literal best basketball player ever. But I actually think the opposite the way his fans go after every other NBA player makes me think there's a lot of other just as talented guys. Legacy wise only LeBron Kareem and Kobe probably even compare to Jordan lol. But if you're talking talent, there's plenty of guys near his level.
I can keep going for example: put Jordan and Allen Iverson shoes 2001. Does that team make it to the finals? I don't even think so lol. Team sports really make it harder to judge individuals. When comparing players in the same position it is much easier
Steroid boy (LeBron's) teammate, Luka Doncic, deserves some flak for failing to comeback in time for this OKC series. He went to Europe to speed up the healing but will still not get into a playoff game. Disappointing! The Lakers management (which includes LeBron) has failed in a more epic capacity though. They will be paying for their stupidity and greed for another decade after LeBron leaves/retires due to lack of draft capitalb(picks traded) and cap space.
Jordan still had his raw skills, but he didn't have basketball stamina, and he didn't have nearly enough time to build chemistry with his new teammates. You can see the evidence of that in his lower than usual advance stats and his uncharacteristically high 4.1 turnovers per game in those playoffs.
He must have had chemistry in the regular season where he averaged a career low in TO/game and TOV%
Regardless, the Bulls won two fewer games the season after Jordan left. And when he did come back, they exited the playoffs in the same round as the year without him (dominated by Orlando).
Playoff performance matters more. Bulls went from a three peat with Jordan to not getting past the second round while he was playing baseball. Then another three peat when Jordan resumed playing full seasons.
Lebron’s finals record is just not a great argument when he has carried all of his teams to those finals. Basketball is a team sport so trying to pin it against the individual seems weird when competition is so variable.
Lebron’s finals record is just not a great argument when he has carried all of his teams to those finals. Basketball is a team sport so trying to pin it against the individual seems weird when competition is so variable.
#1 if you've been able to enjoy basketball without old people trying to compare everything to Jordan you'd realize LeBron is on the same level of greatness as Jordan. In a team sport with different positions one guy seen as the goat might have different responsibilities than the other. LeBron MJ and Kareem all play different positions.
Another crazy thing about LeBron is he's now played in 3 different NBA Era's and adapted every time.
The most prominent Jordan argument is the 6-0 finals record. This is massively overblown. The 90's were literally watered down with expansion teams(4 of them being on the East Coast). Which is why it was harder to win in the 80's and 2000s compared to the 90s. It isn't a coincidence the bulls went 72-10 with prime Jordan and Pippen. Mj averaged 30 against the Hornets their first year in the league lol.
And anyone saying winning six finals is better than going to 10 total and 8 straight while winning 4 of them. Tell me about the time you just missed out on qualifying for Nationals and didn't go and tell me how that was better than going and losing. I personally qualified for Nationals three different times and have not run in a single one so that kills me hearing nonsense like that.
The combination of the internet blowing up media blowing up and the timing of Jordans prime All the perfect Storm to make him appear as the literal best basketball player ever. But I actually think the opposite the way his fans go after every other NBA player makes me think there's a lot of other just as talented guys. Legacy wise only LeBron Kareem and Kobe probably even compare to Jordan lol. But if you're talking talent, there's plenty of guys near his level.
I can keep going for example: put Jordan and Allen Iverson shoes 2001. Does that team make it to the finals? I don't even think so lol. Team sports really make it harder to judge individuals. When comparing players in the same position it is much easier
At least those expansion teams tried. Tanking and load management have been much bigger issues during LeBron's career. He's been able to benefit from 8 to 10 teams tanking depending on the year. The NBA literally had to alter the playoff qualification structure during LeBron's career to incentivize more teams to actually try.
Winning 72 games isn't that much different than the Lakers winning 69 in the 1970s, the Celtics winning 67 in the 1980s, or the Warriors winning 73 in the 2010s.
The goal is to win the title. Jordan won 6, LeBron 4. Going to the Finals is nice but it's not enough. Ask Buffalo Bills fans how they feel about the Bills going to four Super Bowls in a row but not winning any of them.
Your Allen Iverson example is nothing but speculative fantasy. The reality is Jordan won more championships and MVP awards than LeBron, and it took him less years to do it.
Lebron’s finals record is just not a great argument when he has carried all of his teams to those finals. Basketball is a team sport so trying to pin it against the individual seems weird when competition is so variable.
LOL. Dwyane Wade didn't need to be carried. He won a championship with the Heat before LeBron went ring chasing by joining him in Miami.
Jordan is the goat. When he played on the road, games would sell out just because everyone wanted to see him play. He was incredible even during the season to watch. He was not only the best offensive player but also a top defense player. If your life depended on a game win are you picking prime Jordan or LeBron? Jordan, he was absolutely clutch.
At least those expansion teams tried. Tanking and load management have been much bigger issues during LeBron's career. He's been able to benefit from 8 to 10 teams tanking depending on the year. The NBA literally had to alter the playoff qualification structure during LeBron's career to incentivize more teams to actually try.
Winning 72 games isn't that much different than the Lakers winning 69 in the 1970s, the Celtics winning 67 in the 1980s, or the Warriors winning 73 in the 2010s.
The goal is to win the title. Jordan won 6, LeBron 4. Going to the Finals is nice but it's not enough. Ask Buffalo Bills fans how they feel about the Bills going to four Super Bowls in a row but not winning any of them.
Your Allen Iverson example is nothing but speculative fantasy. The reality is Jordan won more championships and MVP awards than LeBron, and it took him less years to do it.
Goal is to win a title so Bill Russell is #1 in your eyes right?
Only mentioned Iverson because some great players don't end up in winning situations. An Expansion teams front office and entire organization is not going to be amply equipped the same way an established one would. They have no history no culture and in comparison.. No Fans
Grizzlies(95) didn't even make the playoffs for a decade. Magic made the playoffs in a few years because they drafted freakin shaq and Penny. 73-9 Warriors are much more impressive than the 72-10 Bulls No expansion teams in the league at all. Anyone trying to argue not making the championship is better than losing lost the argument from the start lol that is really your argument? Imagine me saying Athing mu not going to the last Olympics makes her Olympic record better than Keely's
This post was edited 7 minutes after it was posted.
At least those expansion teams tried. Tanking and load management have been much bigger issues during LeBron's career. He's been able to benefit from 8 to 10 teams tanking depending on the year. The NBA literally had to alter the playoff qualification structure during LeBron's career to incentivize more teams to actually try.
Winning 72 games isn't that much different than the Lakers winning 69 in the 1970s, the Celtics winning 67 in the 1980s, or the Warriors winning 73 in the 2010s.
The goal is to win the title. Jordan won 6, LeBron 4. Going to the Finals is nice but it's not enough. Ask Buffalo Bills fans how they feel about the Bills going to four Super Bowls in a row but not winning any of them.
Your Allen Iverson example is nothing but speculative fantasy. The reality is Jordan won more championships and MVP awards than LeBron, and it took him less years to do it.
Goal is to win a title so Bill Russell is #1 in your eyes right?
Only mentioned Iverson because some great players don't end up in winning situations. An Expansion teams front office and entire organization is not going to be amply equipped the same way an established one would. They have no history no culture and in comparison.. No Fans
Grizzlies(95) didn't even make the playoffs for a decade. Magic made the playoffs in a few years because they drafted freakin shaq and Penny. 73-9 Warriors are much more impressive than the 72-10 Bulls.
Bill Russell dribbled, blocked shots and passed without breaking the rules. LeBron does none of those things. He's basically a cheater.
He must have had chemistry in the regular season where he averaged a career low in TO/game and TOV%
Regardless, the Bulls won two fewer games the season after Jordan left. And when he did come back, they exited the playoffs in the same round as the year without him (dominated by Orlando).
Playoff performance matters more.
Fine. Lebron has more playoff wins than the Bulls franchise.
I do agree that judging individuals on performance from a team sport is unfair. Put the best player on the worst team every year and he ain't winning any nba titles. We'll actually, LeBron did close to that with the Cavs. He carried what was a mediocre at best team without him. Jordan always had a very good team without him on the Bulls.
Goal is to win a title so Bill Russell is #1 in your eyes right?
Only mentioned Iverson because some great players don't end up in winning situations. An Expansion teams front office and entire organization is not going to be amply equipped the same way an established one would. They have no history no culture and in comparison.. No Fans
Grizzlies(95) didn't even make the playoffs for a decade. Magic made the playoffs in a few years because they drafted freakin shaq and Penny. 73-9 Warriors are much more impressive than the 72-10 Bulls.
Bill Russell dribbled, blocked shots and passed without breaking the rules. LeBron does none of those things. He's basically a cheater.
Hey, it's the truth. He carries the ball constantly