What a load of hogwash
Anyone who has spent ten seconds around Jordan Hasay knows this didn’t happen
We merged two Mary Cain threads into 1. The 2nd one was entitled, "Update: Mary Cain makes another sexual allegation - Alberto Salazar looked at her exposed breasts while she was sleeping"
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Jack Frost wrote:
What a load of hogwash
Anyone who has spent ten seconds around Jordan Hasay knows this didn’t happen
I don't believe it either. What probably happened is that Jordan made a comment about her OWN weight, (Jordan seemed to be struggling with underfueling during this time) which Mary incorrectly took as targeted at her. Similarly, Jordan probably made a comment about Mary's hair that was not meant to be negative but Mary read it that way.
Mary was viewing every person and interaction in the most negative light possible, and that is coloring her memories of everything.
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To where?
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xhfchgng wrote:
I remember seeing a video of the NOP team doing a hard workout after a meet and they were all down to business knocking out the repeats. Mary sat on the side of the track and put on a "show" about it hurting so bad, and not wanting to do the last one. Everyone just ignored her and got back on the track. That microcosm of an interaction revealed a broader issue that she was WAAAYYYYYY too immature to be running with a professional team. She appears to be a case of arrested development where peoples' maturity level stays locked at the age when they get famous, which in her case was quite young. I can only imagine how annoying she must have been at times - she was used to being catered to and no one seemed to have the patience for it anymore because they had their own work/career to manage.
You’re right on target. I know one of the NOP runners. The runner statedany tiles to me that she was very immature and didn’t fit in and was really out of her league. They were all older than her and some had families so she was always the odd girl out. She was also not up to the type of workouts given to team so basic suffering on many levels
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No redeeming qualities wrote:
xhfchgng wrote:
I remember seeing a video of the NOP team doing a hard workout after a meet and they were all down to business knocking out the repeats. Mary sat on the side of the track and put on a "show" about it hurting so bad, and not wanting to do the last one. Everyone just ignored her and got back on the track. That microcosm of an interaction revealed a broader issue that she was WAAAYYYYYY too immature to be running with a professional team. She appears to be a case of arrested development where peoples' maturity level stays locked at the age when they get famous, which in her case was quite young. I can only imagine how annoying she must have been at times - she was used to being catered to and no one seemed to have the patience for it anymore because they had their own work/career to manage.
You’re right on target. I know one of the NOP runners. The runner statedany tiles to me that she was very immature and didn’t fit in and was really out of her league. They were all older than her and some had families so she was always the odd girl out. She was also not up to the type of workouts given to team so basic suffering on many levels
* stated
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I am going to read the book and write about it.
But what I don't get in all these reviews is where is the word "allegedly"?
The Guardian wrote:
The tale begins, surprisingly, not with Salazar, but with a high school coach and teammates (and their parents) who bullied and ostracized Cain for her talent.who allegedly bullied.
The reviews all seemingly state this as fact. I think the word allegedly needs to be used every time they write it.
Now to be fair, The Guardian did use that word occasionally in their review as shown here:
The Guardian wrote:
Salazar’s boss and the then vice-president of marketing also allegedly told Cain cutting her hair would help her lose weight but he wouldn’t let her, because then she would “not look good”, and that she needed a different bra because everyone could see how huge her breasts were.Does the legendary status of the girls coach at Bronxville get mentioned anywhere in any review? Is it anywhere in the book? Is Cain't older sisters allegedly awful experience on the Bronxville team also mentioned?
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Jack Frost wrote:
What a load of hogwash
Anyone who has spent ten seconds around Jordan Hasay knows this didn’t happen
It would be helpful if Jordan came out and at least denied Mary's claims. Jordan has defended Alberto in the past and then went silent. Now she's coaching amateur runners and we're supposed to believe none of this carried over?
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reer wrote:
Kickers usually win wrote:
It’s receiving good reviews so it’s appealing to whatever her market is.
Well, I suspect that there's a bit of selection bias in who chooses to read a book like this. But some are certainly critical: Below is an except from a female reviewer on Goodreads:
"I guess I’m not in line with most of the reviews of Mary Cain’s book. After I read the book, I was taken aback by both the quality of the writing and the overall tone. While “mean” may not be the perfect word, the book often felt mean and more like a diary of a disgruntled, immature young person than a thoughtful memoir. It reads as a chronological list of grievances against nearly everyone she believes wronged her.
I found myself repeatedly putting the book down and wondering how it came to be published in this form. Throughout the book, it seemed to lack a larger purpose beyond tearing others down.
For me, this was a disappointing read."Maybe, but either way, in a few weeks people will no longer be discussing her book. I was interested in her relationship with Salazar, but not with her HS coach and teammates, and I will not be reading her book.
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TheHelp. wrote:
It would be helpful if Jordan came out and at least denied Mary's claims. Jordan has defended Alberto in the past and then went silent. Now she's coaching amateur runners and we're supposed to believe none of this carried over?
Compelled speech is always wrong. Jordan needs to do no such thing. She owes you nothing.
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i read it too! wrote:
Lloyd Llewellyn wrote:
How does Hasay figure into this? What is the deal with their relationship?
Was probably unfair for me to lump Hasay in with Salazar and Treasure who are real abusers. But Hasay's actions as Mary describes them did cross a line with me.
I'll start by saying I think Mary had unrealistic expectations for her competitors and NOP training partners. She wanted them to be always warm and cheerful towards her. At competitions when everyone is in it for themselves, I think the most you can expect is politeness.
Mary accused teammates like Shannon Rowbury for example for being petty and manipulative, especially during workouts. But IDK, Shannon might have her own side of the story.
But Mary says Jordan actually made comments towards her that were needlessly mean spirited. It's okay to ignore Mary or not be warm towards her. It's not okay to make rude and snide comments to a high schooler when you are a college graduate.
Jordan would make fun of Mary for being fat. She also made fun of her hair, saying things like how she worried about going to Oregon because she worried her hair would become dark like Mary's, and called her hair "thick and unruly". She also made really underhanded comments about Mary's dedication or work ethic, that felt uncalled for. It was gross to read about a 22 year old treating a 17 year old like that. There was no need for it.
It’s a well recognized phenomenon that rewrite memories and start believing that as fact. Mary (or anyone) correctly remembering such petty things from 12 years back is a stretch. In any case, this is one person’s view and nothing here seems deeply problematic. Even taken at face value, someone being mean to someone is not a systemic problem worth worrying about. It’s part of growing up.
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bah wrote:
i read it too! wrote:
Was probably unfair for me to lump Hasay in with Salazar and Treasure who are real abusers. But Hasay's actions as Mary describes them did cross a line with me.
I'll start by saying I think Mary had unrealistic expectations for her competitors and NOP training partners. She wanted them to be always warm and cheerful towards her. At competitions when everyone is in it for themselves, I think the most you can expect is politeness.
Mary accused teammates like Shannon Rowbury for example for being petty and manipulative, especially during workouts. But IDK, Shannon might have her own side of the story.
But Mary says Jordan actually made comments towards her that were needlessly mean spirited. It's okay to ignore Mary or not be warm towards her. It's not okay to make rude and snide comments to a high schooler when you are a college graduate.
Jordan would make fun of Mary for being fat. She also made fun of her hair, saying things like how she worried about going to Oregon because she worried her hair would become dark like Mary's, and called her hair "thick and unruly". She also made really underhanded comments about Mary's dedication or work ethic, that felt uncalled for. It was gross to read about a 22 year old treating a 17 year old like that. There was no need for it.
It’s a well recognized phenomenon that rewrite memories and start believing that as fact. Mary (or anyone) correctly remembering such petty things from 12 years back is a stretch. In any case, this is one person’s view and nothing here seems deeply problematic. Even taken at face value, someone being mean to someone is not a systemic problem worth worrying about. It’s part of growing up.
Girls are also known to be catty, quite a bit more so than boys. Let’s just call it “girls will be girls” like we do so casually for boys. Or we could get more creative and call it toxic femininity, how about that?
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Jordan made fun of Mary for being fat? That's a pretty strong accusation. It's also severe and insensitive bullying if it's true.
The sad thing is that EITHER way, it's someone tearing someone down. Which I think we can all do without quite frankly.
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track chick wrote:
Jordan made fun of Mary for being fat? That's a pretty strong accusation. It's also severe and insensitive bullying if it's true.
The sad thing is that EITHER way, it's someone tearing someone down. Which I think we can all do without quite frankly.
Sorry, calling someone fat in and of itself is nowhere near "severe" bullying. For all we know, Jordan made a comment that Mary interpreted as fat-shaming when it wasn't. Or perhaps Jordan was inelegantly trying to advise Mary on body composition issues vis a vis running performance, and Mary assumed bullying rather than assuming good intent. I'm sort of inventing these scenarios because unfortunately we're relying on an immature girl's recollection from 12-ish years ago, someone who seems to have a knack for seeing bullies at every turn.
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Can someone please explain. Cain had a sister on the hs team the same time she was running for Bronxville. Why did the sister stay on the team if the coach was so bad? Why didn't her parents allow her sister to stay in such a toxic culture?
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neutral Nathan wrote:
she may have stepped in doodoo wrote:
"creepy coach, who took perverse interest in the sex lives of his female runners"
A statement like that in a published book without any proof could lead to a lawsuit. She is specifically identifying the individual (a name is not needed; it is easy to identify the coach).
Yes and no.
What "proof" did Kara Goucher have? Her word? She didn't go to the authorities. Why didn't she tell Adam and then he'd have "word" with Alberto? Sorry, it just never added up to me.
Salazar could have sued her as well, but he moved on.
Agreed. The whole Goucher thing never added up to me either.
At this point, Mary is truly looking like she's simply trying to cash in, aka an opportunistic person at best.
Go to med school, become a doctor and move on from the past while enjoying your life today.
I have 2 family members that are now resident doctors. Trust me, you'll be busy enough without all of this other stuff that she is bringing on herself.
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reer wrote:
track chick wrote:
Jordan made fun of Mary for being fat? That's a pretty strong accusation. It's also severe and insensitive bullying if it's true.
The sad thing is that EITHER way, it's someone tearing someone down. Which I think we can all do without quite frankly.
Sorry, calling someone fat in and of itself is nowhere near "severe" bullying. For all we know, Jordan made a comment that Mary interpreted as fat-shaming when it wasn't. Or perhaps Jordan was inelegantly trying to advise Mary on body composition issues vis a vis running performance, and Mary assumed bullying rather than assuming good intent. I'm sort of inventing these scenarios because unfortunately we're relying on an immature girl's recollection from 12-ish years ago, someone who seems to have a knack for seeing bullies at every turn.
That's why I said "if". And given the rate of eating disorders in athletics and the consequences (the mental illness with the highest mortality) making fun of someone for being fat is severe and unnecessary, yes.
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rojo wrote:
Outside's Run has an excerpt of the Cain's book where Cain writes about obsessively trying to lose weight.
Man, that's a hard read.
I think we can all great Darren Treasure - who acted like a sports psychologist expert but didn't even have a license - comes off really bad there.
Poor Oregon girl catching strays here...doesn't take too much thinking to figure out who Darren Treasure was talking about. I feel like some of that conversation could have depicted differently to not put someone on blast like this....
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BigBerto wrote:
Alberto being crazy?! I think we kind of glorified that when things were going well. Galen living in an altitude controlled house, making Centro walk up a mountain after training,
Wait, what happened here? Please explain
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Someone explain this wrote:
BigBerto wrote:
Alberto being crazy?!
Alberto repeatedly easing into 17 yr old Mary's room at night to adjust her altitude tent (as recounted by Cain on that CBC podcast with Matt Galloway) might qualify.
That said, we've yet to hear Alberto's comments on the night visits.
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