An Interesting Find: Majority of Dopers Busted by USADA Are Masters

It feels good to get responses like yours. Take a pill.

I'm disappointed to hear that.

No, because I’m not a cheater. I also haven’t tried EPO or steroids.

The thread has now gone on for six pages. That doesn't seem simplistic.

Rich, you should stay in your lane on this one. You don't compete at a high level in your age group (or at all, right?) and clearly have no idea what's happening at the top end. No, it's not about prize money of course. But does it really come as a surprise that there are runners at the top end of the masters divisions who bend the rules to win? In this day and age? Come on, you should know better than that. The cheaters are either doing so blatantly (Qualls) or possibly are rationalizing that they have some reason that they should be allowed to use TRT or that it's "not that big of a deal." The case I know of is the latter.

I guarantee that if you were a podium finisher in any age division at Club Nationals last weekend, you know that you're not allowed to take TRT. So it's silly to keep speculating that someone may inadvertently get caught. Those mid-pack types aren't getting tested in the first place.

The post you're responding to has nothing to do with people doping. I think this is a topic there's nothing simplistic about. Yes, I know you can't take TRT if you're competing. I also know that it has benefits for many people that have nothing to do with aiding athletic performances and that having to choose between improving your life in general or competing legally is a hard choice and I'm not sure what I think about forcing people to make it. How is that out of my lane?

It shouldn't really be a surprise that athletes who came through in a dirtier era might still be dirty as older athletes. I think there's a tendency to assume that masters athletes only got into the sport later in life, when plenty of them would have been competing the whole way through. 80s athletes got old. And 90s and 00s.

The idea that most runners busted are masters is laughable.
This just shows that WADA is colluding with big countries to hide positive tests from big athletes from important countries.

Does anyone really think that Masters are more motivated to dope than elite runners where the prize money is larger ?

I’m not going to advise you on God or doping, but the devil is in the details here. If you’re seeing adverse athletic effects from T, or none at all, the question to ask isn’t whether T helps distance running, but if it’s effective for distance running in the way you are taking it. Timing, amount, administration method all matter, and it takes some care to get it all dialed in and keep it dialed in. That’s why sketchy sports doctors get involved. So, you are right, there are surely plenty of runners like yourself who tank on T. But the problem is, those who want to use it to get faster can use it to great effect.

Your take is what is simplistic. Having benefits does not make it medically necessary. Feeling old is not a disease, it is natural.

I have been on the podium in four USATF Championships and won at the World Senior Games (second fastest time on record for that event) and I think ranked as high as 22nd on World Rankings (age 65, where admittedly it thins out).

I was only a relatively mediocre English Club runner 1:57.5, 4:01, 4:20, 8:45 and 15:22 and I can't believe that I would have been much better, relatively, as a master if performance enhancement through various chemical means was so rampant.

I think there is the odd guy out there, but I think it's a very small percentage.

No, benefits are generally not medically necessary but they can be. What if someone is really struggling with his job because he's just dead tired all the time and his doctor says TRT could improve that? And let's say this guy also did a bit of running, raced now and again, and really enjoyed it. If he follows the rules he needs to choose between having a much better time at his job or giving up racing. Yes, if he's just running local road races no one is going to bother him about the TRT but ethically he's doing something wrong if he keeps racing and maybe taking home age group prizes.

Care to share which ones specifically?

As I keep saying, but perhaps not clearly enough, you have dug in with hypotheticals that don't comport with the reality on the ground. And now you've tried to turn it an "ethical" issue rather than someone on TRT actually getting caught. No one cares about a mid-packer and his ethics. At least I don't. This is an issue of competitive fairness.

I repeat: mid-packers are not tested. The second piece: the guys at the top of the podium at USATF events (the ones that have good turnouts at least, like Club Nationals) are training their asses off and performing at a super high level. There's no way that this type of person is "really struggling with his job because he's dead tired all the time" from any medical issue. If they're tired, it's from training 60-90 miles per week, as adjusted for age and/or cross-training time.

So there is no overlap in this Venn diagram.

Rich, you're one of the best posters on this site, but you're doubling down on an argument that's silly. That's why your argument is "simplistic" (not my original words). It's overly cute and isn't what's actually happening.

Just trying to justify cheating.

Not just TRT, but I'd be leary of Dehydroepiandrostone (DHEA), which actually falls under HRT. DHEA, a hormone produced by the adrenal glands, is classified as a dietary supplement in the U.S. available OTC.

65 yr old fitness enthusiast & daily exerciser (weights & cardio). I was a former bodybuilder/strength athlete back in the 80s. After that, did about 20 yrs recreational running with a running club - still run once or twice a week.

I take DHEA every other day & have noticed an increase is strength & lean muscle mass. Also, big Improvement in recovery. I'll smash a HIIT workout on the spin bike or a running HIIT workout on the trails & feel real good next day ready to train hard again. Bodyfat is kept at reasonable level without having to watch my caloric intake. All this from a inexpensive OTC dietary supplement.

What's the science say:

DHEA supplemtation ncreased free testosterone with middle-aged men during HIIT workouts:

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Effect of acute DHEA administration on free testosterone in middle-aged and young men following high-intensity interval training - PubMed

With advancing age, plasma testosterone levels decline, with free testosterone levels declining more significantly than total testosterone. This fall is thought to underlie the development of physical and mental weakness that...

Open link

RCT trial showing DHEA supplementation significantly increased lean muscle mass & strength with 65-78 yr olds engaged in weight training over placebo group:

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

DHEA enhances effects of weight training on muscle mass and strength in elderly women and men - PubMed

The plasma levels of dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) and its sulfated form (DHEAS) decline approximately 80% between the ages of 25 and 75 yr. Muscle mass and strength also decrease with aging. Published data on the effects of...

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Unless WADA has improved the testing methods, DHEA supplementation is hard to detect:

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The effect of oral dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) on the urine testosterone/epitestosterone (T/E) ratio in human male volunteers - PubMed

Dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) is an endogenous androgenic steroid produced by the ovaries and adrenal glands. Research suggests that DHEA can be converted to testosterone in peripheral tissues. Classified as a nutritional sup...

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This guy admitted to using DHEA when confronted by USADA for an OOC test:

masterstrack.blog

Suspended M55 cyclist Scott Gross says he took banned DHEA

@KenStoneMedia

In comments, USADA Doping Control Officer Laura Hahn wrote: "Athlete spoke with USADA rep and determined not to take test due to feeling he would test positive for vitamins he's taking with DHEA. He doesn't want to waste our...

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Finally an intelligent response. You are right, protocols definitely matter (I have experimented with every imaginable TRT dose, frequency, ester and form coupled with spending far too much time on TRT forums).

But for TRT to make a difference in athletic performance, you need supraphysiologic levels. To get there you need higher doses that inevitably cause side effects, many of which are detrimental to distance running (versus explosive activities like sprinting, lifting, etc.).

I am not making excuses for doping master runners or commenting on the ethics of it. My point is that exogenous testosterone is the not the drug of choice for male distance running dopers. Nandrolone is far more anabolic and effective. And of course, nothing touches EPO (which is also readily available if you look hard enough).

Seems like there are far too many masters runners blaming TRT every time they get smoked in a race. TRT ain't the boogeyman you think it is. If of you don't believe me, try it as an experiment and report back. I would genuinely be interested in your results.

Every balding, too muscular 50+ male that is running near the front is on TRT. I know you want to say it doesn't provide any benefit but that doesn't really matter. If you take it and you run in a race then it's cheating.

Every post on this thread seems to be making the implicit (or explicit) assumption that we're talking about male masters runners. I realize there are precious few women on this board, but I'm genuinely curious about what female masters dope with. I assume EPO works roughly as well in women as in men. I assume anabolic steroids also work, although with side effects that may be more undesirable in women than in men. Many postmenopausal women are on hormone replacement therapy (estrogen or estrogen plus a progestin, the same hormones used in oral contraceptives) but as far as I know these are neither forbidden nor performance enhancing. Thoughts?