You're making a long term judgment based on a short term observation. That's exactly what NOT to do with a startup. There are sooo many examples of startups that lost money in Year 1 and went on to become profitable. It takes time to develop a new thing into a success.
How GST looked in Year 1 isn't how it would have looked in Year 3 or Year 5. Within just the first year, they made adjustments and improvements. They condensed the meets from three days to two. They tightened up the timing in between races. Fans liked the changes for the most part. The Philly Slam got rave reviews.
Did they make mistakes? Yes! Many! That's part of doing something new. You learn as you go.
Over time, the goal was to improve the product while growing their following and increasing attendance, ratings, and partnerships. That's what eventually yields profitability. It was starting to happen. The product got better. Philly had a good turnout. They landed a new partnership with Sundial Media & Technology.
You can't expect a new sporting league to be an instant smash. That's unrealistic. These things take time. And committed investors who don't bail after one bad weekend.
Ok. I don’t think anyone is disagreeing with you dude. We all agree it would probably evolve in years to come had it been successful. We all agree that yes they made mistakes but we saw them even try and fix those mistakes from meet one to meet three. We all agree that yes of course their goal was to improve the product.
but none of that has anything to do with them not paying bills. Your points that you’re making lack any sort of relevance to the conversation. You’re trying to convince us of something that doesn’t need convincing. It doesn’t change anything about the fact that MJ did not have signed investor commitments and he kept going knowing damn well people would come to work and do the work, and they’d never get paid. But him (& Merber) got paid. They didn’t miss a paycheck. But at minimum MJ knew that others would go unpaid yet he wasn’t honest nor did he act with any integrity. He lined his pockets, climbed the ladder and pulled it up behind him. A big f*ck you I got mine attitude, leaving vendors, facilities, and professional athletes without pay for their services. And that’s really gross and that’s why anyone who says oh MJ was innovating something for track, he was doing a service for track…. If those were his intentions then he would’ve acted with integrity and honesty. Instead it turns out he gets paid and others won’t and he knew all along that was the case. What part of that is saving the sport? What part of that is innovating a new era of track and field?
I'm encouraged that we finally agree on something.
I responded to someone else's comment in the natural flow of the conversation about the topic at hand. That makes it relevant.
Do you know for certain that Johnson and Merber never missed a paycheck, or are you making another assumption like you did when you claimed Merber knew about the league's financial situation all along?
Do you have evidence that Johnson never intended to pay vendors and athletes and planned to just ride off into the sunset with a failed league and a ruined reputation, without making any effort to raise additional funds and pay off the league's debts? Does that really sound plausible to you?
Have you seen Johnson tell anyone, "f-u, I got mine"? Was that your takeaway from his letter he wrote about the dire situation and pledging to make things right?
The reason I made a point earlier to correct the record about how Johnson described the league over a year ago is I think it's important that these conversations be based on documented facts. We shouldn't have conversations based on falsehoods, imaginary mindreading about what people knew/thought, or assumptions about what happened.
Michael Johnson did nothing wrong. He secured investors and funding, but Bill Ackman abandoned him and the athletes. Johnson’s silence on Ackman’s name is curious—possibly due to an NDA restricting what he can say about investors. Still, it’s a mistake not to call out Ackman directly. Blaming Johnson is ridiculous when he delivered the financing, only for Ackman to pull the rug out from everyone. Let’s hear Ackman’s response. Why are we protecting the billionaire who betrayed us all?
Michael Johnson did nothing wrong. He secured investors and funding, but Bill Ackman abandoned him and the athletes. Johnson’s silence on Ackman’s name is curious—possibly due to an NDA restricting what he can say about investors. Still, it’s a mistake not to call out Ackman directly. Blaming Johnson is ridiculous when he delivered the financing, only for Ackman to pull the rug out from everyone. Let’s hear Ackman’s response. Why are we protecting the billionaire who betrayed us all?
Rojo was ranting about this on the pod yesterday. He seemed very upset. says the bbc gig has nothing to do with Grand Slam. And he doesn't feel bad for the western athletes not getting paid. says it cost them nothing. Says we shouldn't blame Johnson for trying.
Completely missing the point that the money was dried up before the first meet, and then they did 2 more after that!
MJ screwed over a lot of people. He doesn't get to be part of this world anymore. And deservedly so.
Ok so am I missing something here?
First off...
All of these athletes you all like to complain about already gamed the system and made millions.. They are the ones sitting back and laughing at you all playing videos games with Nick Mercs..
Do you really think these athletes even care at this point after having made so much money as it is?
Wow so they won't be able to buy that 3rd or 4th BMW or Bentley.....
Awww poor people, we should feel so bad for them now that they won't be able to buy that 2nd or 3rd house.
Nobody cares.
The majority of them, probably around 90 percent of them already got paid so much from other things... This was all like bonus money.
And do you all really think by trying to make Michael Johnson look bad here that he even gives a crap about you all?
He's beyond a millionaire at this point. Wow so let me get this straight. Michael Johnson is one of the most respected names in track and field and he won't be able to buy his third mansion or something? Am I hearing this correctly?
Do you really think he even gives a crap at this point? Wow so he doesn't have the millions to pay everyone. Who cares?
I'm sure he'll try this league again in a few years and it will work that time.
The fact that he even got this far with this league just goes to show it was overall a success.. Good naming. Grand Slam was a pretty cool name to call it.
I didn’t seem him quit after Jamaica when they knew it was going to be a disaster. So please stop making excuses for him like he’s an 18 year old kid with no life experience.
Did you go to Philly? Their vision was starting to become reality.
Why in the world would he quit after Jamaica? Jamaica was their opener. It wasn't good but no one knew it was going to be a disaster after that.. Miami was better and Philly impressive. If I was courting new money and had them in Philly, I'd be optimistic they might bite.
I had a talk with Kyle in Philly after it was over. He was so excited. He said something like, "I feel like we have something." HE felt like they'd learneed stuff and the kids meet was a big draw and he wanted to have like a 5k in the future as well.
In my mind, if this thing fails, Merber is more of a victim here than many of the athletes. Come on, I'm supposed to feel like Fisher was robbed of 200k that he wouldn't have come close to winning on the DL circuit? No, I'm not crying a tear for him.
Fisher, SML, etc are like Tom Brady in the FTX collapse.
My god, Rojo, your ability to almost always come up with the stupidest possible take on everything never ceases to amaze.
The idea that there's basically no breach of contract because it's a start-up, and everyone knows start-ups often fail is spectacularly stupid --even for you.
They promised these athletes payments, and then failed to pay them. Are you really too f***ing dense to grasp that? Jesus.
Then your second Einsteinian claim --that there's 'no harm, no foul' here because none of them could've made this kind of money elsewhere-- just might be even stupider than your first one --if that's possible.
I'd love to see how you'd react if someone hired you for a job, you did it, and then they decided not to pay you --but told you you had nothing to complain about, cuz you weren't gonna get this good a job anywhere else anyway.
You'd go ballistic, like anyone else would.
And that no one can criticize Kyle --or at least ask him for some explanation-- because he has kids?
Kyle seems like a good guy, and I guess it's possible he really was a dupe here --but the idea that no one can question his role because he has kids? Are you an utter imbecile?
(Yes, that's rhetorical.) That's just the refuge of a moron.
Instead of telling people they're not allowed to criticize him, what you should be doing is calling him up and asking him for a statement, and telling him the fans of the sport (and the athletes, I'm sure) really feel he needs to answer some questions.
That Grant Fisher (for one) is equivalent to Tom Brady with FTX is so galactically stupid I wonder if you had to drop some acid to achieve this high a plane of idiocy.
Why don't you run that statement by Grant next time you talk with him, and see how he reacts? That should be fun to see.
Your uncanny ability to find the dumbest take on everything continues to astound.
It's why some folks here assume you must be simply trolling --cuz it strains credibility that someone in your position could be that dumb. I gotta say, if you're just pretending, you're a hell of an actor. Of course if that were the case, that would make you an incredible a**hole, but at least it'd give you plausible deniability on the stunning stupidity.
P.S. If it IS all just pathetic trolling, and you don't really believe any of the horse-crap you spout, but just think it's 'good for business' cuz it 'increases engagement' (or some such idiocy), you're wrong --as usual.
All it does is make the fans of the sport think you're an idiot or a real dick --or possibly both-- and make them less likely to endure all the garbage they have to wade through in this cesspool you've created to find some nuggets of actual value.
P.P.S. Let's see if you respond to this the same way you did the last time I roasted you --deservedly-- for your startling stupidity.
That time your response was to attempt to publicly 'out' me by posting the location I was writing from. A response so cheesy and classless and unprofessional it amazes one almost as much as the chimp-level logic of your 'arguments.'
Do us all a favor, please, just on basic humanitarian grounds.
If you've got nothing to say on the issue that indicates a 75-plus IQ, by all that is holy could you just for god's sake keep it to yourself for once??
Did you go to Philly? Their vision was starting to become reality.
Why in the world would he quit after Jamaica? Jamaica was their opener. It wasn't good but no one knew it was going to be a disaster after that.. Miami was better and Philly impressive. If I was courting new money and had them in Philly, I'd be optimistic they might bite.
I had a talk with Kyle in Philly after it was over. He was so excited. He said something like, "I feel like we have something." HE felt like they'd learneed stuff and the kids meet was a big draw and he wanted to have like a 5k in the future as well.
In my mind, if this thing fails, Merber is more of a victim here than many of the athletes. Come on, I'm supposed to feel like Fisher was robbed of 200k that he wouldn't have come close to winning on the DL circuit? No, I'm not crying a tear for him.
Fisher, SML, etc are like Tom Brady in the FTX collapse.
My god, Rojo, your ability to almost always come up with the stupidest possible take on everything never ceases to amaze.
The idea that there's basically no breach of contract because it's a start-up, and everyone knows start-ups often fail is spectacularly stupid --even for you.
They promised these athletes payments, and then failed to pay them. Are you really too f***ing dense to grasp that? Jesus.
Then your second Einsteinian claim --that there's 'no harm, no foul' here because none of them could've made this kind of money elsewhere-- just might be even stupider than your first one --if that's possible.
I'd love to see how you'd react if someone hired you for a job, you did it, and then they decided not to pay you --but told you you had nothing to complain about, cuz you weren't gonna get this good a job anywhere else anyway.
You'd go ballistic, like anyone else would.
And that no one can criticize Kyle --or at least ask him for some explanation-- because he has kids?
Kyle seems like a good guy, and I guess it's possible he really was a dupe here --but the idea that no one can question his role because he has kids? Are you an utter imbecile?
(Yes, that's rhetorical.) That's just the refuge of a moron.
Instead of telling people they're not allowed to criticize him, what you should be doing is calling him up and asking him for a statement, and telling him the fans of the sport (and the athletes, I'm sure) really feel he needs to answer some questions.
That Grant Fisher (for one) is equivalent to Tom Brady with FTX is so galactically stupid I wonder if you had to drop some acid to achieve this high a plane of idiocy.
Why don't you run that statement by Grant next time you talk with him, and see how he reacts? That should be fun to see.
Your uncanny ability to find the dumbest take on everything continues to astound.
It's why some folks here assume you must be simply trolling --cuz it strains credibility that someone in your position could be that dumb. I gotta say, if you're just pretending, you're a hell of an actor. Of course if that were the case, that would make you an incredible a**hole, but at least it'd give you plausible deniability on the stunning stupidity.
P.S. If it IS all just pathetic trolling, and you don't really believe any of the horse-crap you spout, but just think it's 'good for business' cuz it 'increases engagement' (or some such idiocy), you're wrong --as usual.
All it does is make the fans of the sport think you're an idiot or a real dick --or possibly both-- and make them less likely to endure all the garbage they have to wade through in this cesspool you've created to find some nuggets of actual value.
P.P.S. Let's see if you respond to this the same way you did the last time I roasted you --deservedly-- for your startling stupidity.
That time your response was to attempt to publicly 'out' me by posting the location I was writing from. A response so cheesy and classless and unprofessional it amazes one almost as much as the chimp-level logic of your 'arguments.'
Do us all a favor, please, just on basic humanitarian grounds.
If you've got nothing to say on the issue that indicates a 75-plus IQ, by all that is holy could you just for god's sake keep it to yourself for once??
Um.... Rojos actually right.
You're wrong.
This was a start up thing.
Anyone who's anyone kinda already knows that this isn't an established type of thing like the Diamond League is.
So not understanding your extremely long paragraphs to basically say that you're incompetent and don't initially already know this???????
other thing about GST is they were very keen and blasted it from the roof tops how much money they were going to pay athletes. Which is fine, but you erm have to actually then pay them.
MJ shouldn’t be allowed to ever work in track and field again until those people get paid. He should be social pariah, an outcast, and he should be treated like a leper. Why should he be allowed to work for the BBC and make money when he’s not going to use any of that money gained to pay anyone he owes? He’s just going to line his own pockets, much like he did with GST. MJ is done - legacy ruined. Everyone knows he’s a scammer and a grifter and doesn’t give af about moving the dial in track and field. Him and merber are white collar crooks and don’t deserve a space at all, in this sport any longer.
My god, Rojo, your ability to almost always come up with the stupidest possible take on everything never ceases to amaze.
The idea that there's basically no breach of contract because it's a start-up, and everyone knows start-ups often fail is spectacularly stupid --even for you.
They promised these athletes payments, and then failed to pay them. Are you really too f***ing dense to grasp that? Jesus.
Then your second Einsteinian claim --that there's 'no harm, no foul' here because none of them could've made this kind of money elsewhere-- just might be even stupider than your first one --if that's possible.
I'd love to see how you'd react if someone hired you for a job, you did it, and then they decided not to pay you --but told you you had nothing to complain about, cuz you weren't gonna get this good a job anywhere else anyway.
You'd go ballistic, like anyone else would.
And that no one can criticize Kyle --or at least ask him for some explanation-- because he has kids?
Kyle seems like a good guy, and I guess it's possible he really was a dupe here --but the idea that no one can question his role because he has kids? Are you an utter imbecile?
(Yes, that's rhetorical.) That's just the refuge of a moron.
Instead of telling people they're not allowed to criticize him, what you should be doing is calling him up and asking him for a statement, and telling him the fans of the sport (and the athletes, I'm sure) really feel he needs to answer some questions.
That Grant Fisher (for one) is equivalent to Tom Brady with FTX is so galactically stupid I wonder if you had to drop some acid to achieve this high a plane of idiocy.
Why don't you run that statement by Grant next time you talk with him, and see how he reacts? That should be fun to see.
Your uncanny ability to find the dumbest take on everything continues to astound.
It's why some folks here assume you must be simply trolling --cuz it strains credibility that someone in your position could be that dumb. I gotta say, if you're just pretending, you're a hell of an actor. Of course if that were the case, that would make you an incredible a**hole, but at least it'd give you plausible deniability on the stunning stupidity.
P.S. If it IS all just pathetic trolling, and you don't really believe any of the horse-crap you spout, but just think it's 'good for business' cuz it 'increases engagement' (or some such idiocy), you're wrong --as usual.
All it does is make the fans of the sport think you're an idiot or a real dick --or possibly both-- and make them less likely to endure all the garbage they have to wade through in this cesspool you've created to find some nuggets of actual value.
P.P.S. Let's see if you respond to this the same way you did the last time I roasted you --deservedly-- for your startling stupidity.
That time your response was to attempt to publicly 'out' me by posting the location I was writing from. A response so cheesy and classless and unprofessional it amazes one almost as much as the chimp-level logic of your 'arguments.'
Do us all a favor, please, just on basic humanitarian grounds.
If you've got nothing to say on the issue that indicates a 75-plus IQ, by all that is holy could you just for god's sake keep it to yourself for once??
Um.... Rojos actually right.
You're wrong.
This was a start up thing.
Anyone who's anyone kinda already knows that this isn't an established type of thing like the Diamond League is.
So not understanding your extremely long paragraphs to basically say that you're incompetent and don't initially already know this???????
Wow your logic sucks....
Thanks for wasting my time reading that though.
There’s no reason for a well funded start up to stiff people. You budget out your expenses and if funds start running low, you give employees notice.
I seems like Johnson promised money he didn’t have.
MJ shouldn’t be allowed to ever work in track and field again until those people get paid. He should be social pariah, an outcast, and he should be treated like a leper. Why should he be allowed to work for the BBC and make money when he’s not going to use any of that money gained to pay anyone he owes? He’s just going to line his own pockets, much like he did with GST. MJ is done - legacy ruined. Everyone knows he’s a scammer and a grifter and doesn’t give af about moving the dial in track and field. Him and merber are white collar crooks and don’t deserve a space at all, in this sport any longer.
When you bash Merber, you are making my point for me. Do you really think Kyle Merber with two young kids thought, "I'm going to quit my stable job at Amex and join GST and con a bunch of athletes and then run off into the sunset?" No. Merber took a risk to help the sport. It appears to have failed. Of course, he should be allowed to work in the sport moving forward if he wants to. He was an employee and likely had no idea of the financials.
MJ is different certainly but let me explain my rationale. I think the venom is over the top.
From day 1, many people have viewed me as a critic of GST but the OP is correct - I very much defended Johnson the SC podcast yesterday. Maybe I'm too much of a contrarian, but I've never understood the venom towards MJ (and particularly Kyle).
Johnson's job on the BBC is to analyze track and field. I don't understand how his businesss failure impacts his ability to do that. He's not really interviewing athletes. He can still easily analyze the races.
From day 1, we were told GST was a startup. Guess what - a lot of startups fail.
I guess it depends on how much dishonesty was involved. They were put in a tough spot. They thought they had funding, they didn't and then it became an issue of how can we get it and if not when do we pull the plug? Or do you think all along, they plan was "Let's startup a league, pay ourselves for 6 months and then fleece everyone and ruin our reputations?"
On paper, all of the athletes lost out big. But what I want to know is how much of those losses are real as compared to what they could have earned elsewhere. Most werent' going to be making big $ anywhere. I'd love to see how much a Josh Kerr or Grant Fisher made from GST this year as to what they could have made on the DL.
The ones I feel for are the likes of Medina Eisa who could have been running road races.
It reminds me of a buddy who back to during the .com bust lost a ton on paper. Right after college, he joined a startup and it's valuation quickly went nort of a billion bucks but before he could sell his shares it crumbled.
My bar for being absolved from criticism is a little higher than “they didn’t fail INTENTIONALLY”
Anyone who's anyone kinda already knows that this isn't an established type of thing like the Diamond League is.
So not understanding your extremely long paragraphs to basically say that you're incompetent and don't initially already know this???????
Wow your logic sucks....
Thanks for wasting my time reading that though.
There’s no reason for a well funded start up to stiff people. You budget out your expenses and if funds start running low, you give employees notice.
I seems like Johnson promised money he didn’t have.
didn't they have 2 athlete meetings?
in general What do you guys get out of trying to make Michael Johnson out like he stole money? HE literally is the one who went way out of his way hoping for more athletes to get paid similarly to other sports.
she's the only permanent commentator/analyst the BBC have added to their athletics team in the past decade. Most of them have 2 decades and counting working for them now. It needs to be freshened up.
she's the only permanent commentator/analyst the BBC have added to their athletics team in the past decade. Most of them have 2 decades and counting working for them now. It needs to be freshened up.
Well Denise Lewis quit last year to work for UKA so it looks like a freshening up is coming even if it is just the pundits
This post was edited 3 minutes after it was posted.
There’s no reason for a well funded start up to stiff people. You budget out your expenses and if funds start running low, you give employees notice.
I seems like Johnson promised money he didn’t have.
didn't they have 2 athlete meetings?
in general What do you guys get out of trying to make Michael Johnson out like he stole money? HE literally is the one who went way out of his way hoping for more athletes to get paid similarly to other sports.
What does this have to do with anything? The absurd notion that runners would be paid similarly to basketball, football, and baseball players, even though running has a tiny fraction of the fan base of those sports is irrelevant.
Either he promised people money he didn’t have or he didn’t.
in general What do you guys get out of trying to make Michael Johnson out like he stole money? HE literally is the one who went way out of his way hoping for more athletes to get paid similarly to other sports.
What does this have to do with anything? The absurd notion that runners would be paid similarly to basketball, football, and baseball players, even though running has a tiny fraction of the fan base of those sports is irrelevant.
Either he promised people money he didn’t have or he didn’t.