Maybe I'm crazy, but before today I feel like Nuguse was always considered a good kicker and now people are acting like he's slow because he got cooked. If Hocker was the one pushing it I don't think he'd have looked good in the final 100 either. It's worth noting that slow-poke Jakob closed as fast as Hocker did in the Diamond League Final last year (12.9, pretty solid for the last race of the season when everyone is tired) and also split 12.6 in one of his indoor races this winter, so it's not like any of these guys are actually slow. I think all of them can kick well and it mostly comes down to who is most efficient in the first 1400.
I think you're remembering wrong. The book on Yared is that while he can finish strongly, he has to make the race somewhat fast because he doesn't have the blazing speed in the last 100 in a slower race. Your Jakob-Hocker comp is a little off because Hocker had to stop-start his kick in the Paris Final after Jakob blocked his pass, which definitely affected that split.
I mean Hocker running 12.54 while angling out to lane 3 today in a 3:30-low race shows you all you need to know. He ran 12.20 in 3:35 race ('21 Oly Trials).
Jakob is a decent enough kicker, probably a little better than Yared. The problem is where that leaves him? It sure seems like he calculates that a group of 2-3 guys can beat him if he leaves it mostly down to a kick. From what we're seeing the number of guys able to hit crazy last 100 splits in these races is only going up. Strand is somewhat unproven but has flashed the ability. Laros, absolutely. Koech of course. Reynold's last 100 looks at a different level this season though he's left himself so far back, Jakob can probably accrue enough of a gap.
Yared’s last 100m in Paris was equal to, or faster than Hocker’s. Yared has several fast 100ms it below 13, he finished his 3:47 indoors in 25.9 from the front. It just doesn’t look the same bc he has a loping stride.
He ran last 200m in the world 3k championships was 25.3. In 7:43 race.
As predicted by several of us, anything “tactical” (meaning 3:30 or slower) would aee Yared missing out. That’s what happened. Although in fairness, Koech is doped to his eyeballs. Another treacherous African cheat like Lagat.
Yared just ran a dumb race. You can't lead from the front against those massive kickers. Losing strategy but he's still in insane shape.
I don’t understand. Where else would you lead if not from the front? Also, you’re suggesting his best option was to wait back and try to outkick “the massive kickers”?
But he wasn't a 1:43 guy until this year. He lowered his 800 time by exactly one second this year.
It's clear you aren't a big fan of 800m running. 10 of the best 17 times EVER have been run in the last 14 months. Don't even get me started on the DEPTH of those times. We are in a new era of the 800m - across all countries.
2025 has turned into the year of the 800m guys handing it to the 1500m guys and I am here for it. Hoping this fun trend continues
Maybe I'm crazy, but before today I feel like Nuguse was always considered a good kicker and now people are acting like he's slow because he got cooked. If Hocker was the one pushing it I don't think he'd have looked good in the final 100 either. It's worth noting that slow-poke Jakob closed as fast as Hocker did in the Diamond League Final last year (12.9, pretty solid for the last race of the season when everyone is tired) and also split 12.6 in one of his indoor races this winter, so it's not like any of these guys are actually slow. I think all of them can kick well and it mostly comes down to who is most efficient in the first 1400.
I think you're remembering wrong. The book on Yared is that while he can finish strongly, he has to make the race somewhat fast because he doesn't have the blazing speed in the last 100 in a slower race. Your Jakob-Hocker comp is a little off because Hocker had to stop-start his kick in the Paris Final after Jakob blocked his pass, which definitely affected that split.
I mean Hocker running 12.54 while angling out to lane 3 today in a 3:30-low race shows you all you need to know. He ran 12.20 in 3:35 race ('21 Oly Trials).
Jakob is a decent enough kicker, probably a little better than Yared. The problem is where that leaves him? It sure seems like he calculates that a group of 2-3 guys can beat him if he leaves it mostly down to a kick. From what we're seeing the number of guys able to hit crazy last 100 splits in these races is only going up. Strand is somewhat unproven but has flashed the ability. Laros, absolutely. Koech of course. Reynold's last 100 looks at a different level this season though he's left himself so far back, Jakob can probably accrue enough of a gap.
No one is talking about this dude. In the DL final both Jakob and Cole split 12.9 for their final 100.
Interesting that even the best runners in the world struggle with tactics. If front runners need to be 5% faster than the field to win why do they still try it from too early on? It is fascinating to watch front runners at every level, from elite HS up, get caught at the end. For all the coaches and gurus out there, who dissect every portion of these runs, there must be strategy that a runner like Nuguse (without the elite kick) can use? Ratchet up the pace with 1k to go? 600 to go? Why don't even these elite demonstrate more nuanced tactics than: option 1 run from the front, option 2 run in the pack, sit and kick at the end? If it was windy, why wasn't that factored in? Where is the elite coaching in all of this?
As predicted by several of us, anything “tactical” (meaning 3:30 or slower) would aee Yared missing out. That’s what happened. Although in fairness, Koech is doped to his eyeballs. Another treacherous African cheat like Lagat.
Are you willing to apply the same logic to Hocker?
guy had never dipped under 3:30 before in his life and magically runs a 3:27 in Paris??? Hasn’t won a race since. Hocker has had a ton of opportunities in “tactical races” to replicate his Olympic glory and struggles mightily to even sneak into the top 5 for most of them.
12.49, 12.69, 12.54. Those are the last 100 splits of the top 3. It’s a gear that Kessler/Nuguse have never unlocked as far as I know. The race despite being 3;30 wasn’t fast enough to break the top 3 and their kicks’ top-end speed are just overwhelming for even guys as fast in a time trial as Yared/Hobbs.
We all know how 💉
And Yared isn’t coached by anyone that had any association with anything around doping ever
Then how do you explain Strand? Ran cross country in the fall, broke the NCAA 3k record in December, broke the NCAA indoor mile record in February, ran full indoor and outdoor track seasons including conference and national championships. Ran 14 outdoor races before these championships.
I'm guessing the argument is that Strand doesn't train at the same level of intensity or volume as Yared. But it's a great counterpoint. It doesn't feel like racing volume to me. Maybe Pre and the way he ran it was a little ambitious, but he's had time to bounce back..
It feels like leading from the front (challenging) and then there's a huge discrepancy between Strand and Koech's prelims and Yared's. Kinda absurd in retrospect.
Strand and Koech: Jog the first 200 (29/30). The next 1100 with 100m segments between 14.0 and 14.6, no leading and mostly running minimal extra distance. Then they banged home in 26.6-7.
Yared: Jog the first 400, then to get to the front he ran wide in 14.05 and 13.93, so those were probably more akin to faster splits. After getting to the front he ran the following 100m splits: 13.63, 14.38, 14.6, 14.03, 13.75, 13,70, 13.82, 13.43, 13.32. That's just hard running with a yo-yo pace.
Even compared to Hocker who ran marginally faster in his prelim - Hocker ran hard from 200-400 (27.6) after jogging the first 200. He then even-split a comfortable 1:55 800m. Yared? An unevenly paced 1:51 off of the first 400, and then a 40.57 last 300 which was fastest in the prelims.
No one is talking about this dude. In the DL final both Jakob and Cole split 12.9 for their final 100.
Yeah by the DL Final, Cole was not the same athlete he'd been at USAs or Paris. Today was the closest we've seen since. The numbers don't lie. By far his fastest last 100 since then in a race as fast as the Pre Mile, and then the prelim was much more impressive than anything else besides the 3K indoors. He got his tactics a bit wrong, but said after the race he thought he was in 3:27 type shape.
This post was edited 5 minutes after it was posted.
Yared’s last 100m in Paris was equal to, or faster than Hocker’s. Yared has several fast 100ms it below 13, he finished his 3:47 indoors in 25.9 from the front. It just doesn’t look the same bc he has a loping stride.
He ran last 200m in the world 3k championships was 25.3. In 7:43 race.
A 3K off a slow pace is not the same.
Cole has a 12.20 last 100m split from the '21 Trials when he was merely a 3:31 guy (what he ended up running in Tokyo). Yared has marginally hit under 13. It's kinda common sense if you watch the Paris race that Cole getting blocked by Jakob cost him a few-tenths. Kerr has said as much. Yared himself would tell you he doesn't think his all-out kick is as fast as Cole's, it pretty obvious.
I think you're remembering wrong. The book on Yared is that while he can finish strongly, he has to make the race somewhat fast because he doesn't have the blazing speed in the last 100 in a slower race. Your Jakob-Hocker comp is a little off because Hocker had to stop-start his kick in the Paris Final after Jakob blocked his pass, which definitely affected that split.
I mean Hocker running 12.54 while angling out to lane 3 today in a 3:30-low race shows you all you need to know. He ran 12.20 in 3:35 race ('21 Oly Trials).
Jakob is a decent enough kicker, probably a little better than Yared. The problem is where that leaves him? It sure seems like he calculates that a group of 2-3 guys can beat him if he leaves it mostly down to a kick. From what we're seeing the number of guys able to hit crazy last 100 splits in these races is only going up. Strand is somewhat unproven but has flashed the ability. Laros, absolutely. Koech of course. Reynold's last 100 looks at a different level this season though he's left himself so far back, Jakob can probably accrue enough of a gap.
Yared’s last 100m in Paris was equal to, or faster than Hocker’s. Yared has several fast 100ms it below 13, he finished his 3:47 indoors in 25.9 from the front. It just doesn’t look the same bc he has a loping stride.
He ran last 200m in the world 3k championships was 25.3. In 7:43 race.
In Paris Yared wasn’t blocked in the last 100m like Hocker you disingenuous twit.
Then how do you explain Strand? Ran cross country in the fall, broke the NCAA 3k record in December, broke the NCAA indoor mile record in February, ran full indoor and outdoor track seasons including conference and national championships. Ran 14 outdoor races before these championships.
Only saw your comment because it was replied to because to be honest you like to pick fights but don't really have the knowledge to be doing so. But I'll make an exception this one time.
First of all, Strand has nothing to do with it. This is about comparing Nuguse's workload across his pro seasons and not him to anyone else. Last time I checked, Strand has been a pro for all of 2 months? Nuguse has been a pro for 3 years and those 3 years has undoubtedly contained a lot more training and training at a high intensity which has yielded the results they have (multiple sub 3.30's, a 3.43 mile, a 3.27 1500m, DL wins, world indoor records).
Secondly lets look at the 14 races of Strand this outdoor season because we know what Nuguses were - all extremely high quality races against world and Olympic champions, every single race. Every GST race involved the top 3 from Tokyo, throw in the mix the 800m silver medalist and reigning World Champ in Marco Arop, plus Wanyonyi in Kingston and then the world class field as always at Prefontaine. Not one race where he was by far the dominant guy and could just maybe coast along for 2/3 of a race, work on his final lap finish etc - every race at maximum focus and effort (and include his indoors with that too). When I look at Strand I see 13/14 races in the college ranks and not all of them NCAA final level. We really comparing racing Olympic and World champions in pro races to the ACC outdoors or the Duke Twilight? A number of his races are even NCAA prelim level races.
So how do I "explain" Strand? 1) Has been a pro about 36 months less than Yared 2) Has had nowhere near the same level of competition day in day out as Yared 3) Isn't Yared Nuguse.
Try and use a little more thought and diligence. You can respond but I won't be seeing it.
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To be fair to McRunnin, you might also acknowledge that USAs is in August this year after starting on June 24th last year. Yared had just 3 races in the 12 weeks before USAs this year. Last year he had 2 in that span, in 2023 he had 3 (with the slightly later USAs). So we're really putting a lot into some spaced-out unpaced races in early April and early May. I get the competition was good on name value. But in 2023 he competed in Rabat and Oslo close to USAs, and did just OK. In 2024, the distance between World Indoors and Trials vs. Kingston and USAs this year is pretty similar.
This post was edited 45 seconds after it was posted.
No one is talking about this dude. In the DL final both Jakob and Cole split 12.9 for their final 100.
Yeah by the DL Final, Cole was not the same athlete he'd been at USAs or Paris. Today was the closest we've seen since. The numbers don't lie. By far his fastest last 100 since then in a race as fast as the Pre Mile, and then the prelim was much more impressive than anything else besides the 3K indoors. He got his tactics a bit wrong, but said after the race he thought he was in 3:27 type shape.
Dude you seriously need to learn to read. No one was the same by Brussels last year. They were all fried and yet Jakob still had the fastest final 100 along with Cole. That was the point of the post you responded to. They’re all good kickers, even the “slow” guy. What is your argument exactly, because nothing you’ve written disputes that point. Also, Cole in Paris is a different athlete than Cole at any other place, on any other day, ever (so far), so idk what your point is in bringing that up.
Dude you seriously need to learn to read. No one was the same by Brussels last year. They were all fried and yet Jakob still had the fastest final 100 along with Cole. That was the point of the post you responded to. They’re all good kickers, even the “slow” guy. What is your argument exactly, because nothing you’ve written disputes that point. Also, Cole in Paris is a different athlete than Cole at any other place, on any other day, ever (so far), so idk what your point is in bringing that up.
It's not hard to understand. Cole peaks harder, he didn't train for a week after winning gold. He was a 3:29 guy the rest of the season, not a 3:27 guys with a kick. Jakob is a freaking machine, he runs 3:45 indoors, no problem. But when Cole peaks, he is a better kicker than just about everyone. What is confusing about this? He ran 12.20 to close the 2021 Olympics Trials. In a 3:27 race, he had to stop start his kick and still ran 12.9. I don't care if Yared ran 3:42 in the mile he still couldn't do either of those feats. Of course all these guys can kick fast, but there are levels to how fast. What have I and others been saying about Strand all week vis a vis Kessler — that if it comes down to kicking off a fast pace, Kessler is toast. Why? One guys has that top-level gear in the last 100 of the 1500, other guy doesn't.
Goes home DEVASTATED rojo? Is that really necessary? I mean you profess to be the best coach in the history of the Ivy league, but in reality you're not even in the top 500 coaches in the country. No one ever said that you went home DEVASTATED do they?
Rojo, you need to re-evaluate what you're trying to accomplish. There are only so many bridges you can burn. Just some constructive criticism to counter your destructive impulses. You can do better.
Haven't you been around here now about 50 years?
...goes home devastated has become a meme.
It's now the standard response here to someone having a tough day at the office.
Lighten up please.
Pretty exciting steeples for you to watch, hope you enjoyed.