French Morroccan getting within touching distance of EL G's WR at age 31, and two Kenyans coming out of nowhere to run 3:27/8, one of them an '18 year old', and one of them called 'Lagat'.
Is there a new undetectable form of EPO out there or something?
Likely there is - the one the Americans, British and Norwegians are taking
or are you arguing that a Kenyan has to be on drugs to still be slower than an American or Norwegian ‘clean’
Hi Toasted Avocado, you've been making this argument for years. I asked ChatGPT who the most inelligent poster in LetsRun is, and it actually claimed it was you!!
We know that Indians, for example, have rampant doping probably on a similar scale to Kenyans. Yet they still can't get near even sub-elite status. What does that prove exactly? The whole world is in fact doping as hard as Indians? The Nigerian record is something like 3:39. If it transpired that that was doped, does that mean Brits are doping because it's impossible a doped Nigerian can only run 10+ seconds slower than the best Brits?
You also believe that Kenyans have a genetic or some other advantage that isn't doping, despite the clear and proven rampant doping there. Why is the idea that they might actually have a disadvantage that is overcome with doping any less irrational?
I can't say what Kenyans would be running clean, as from the number of doping busts it's reasonable to suppose that virtually all elite Kenyans dope to some extent, and probably have for decades. It's entirely reasonable to suppose that the top sub 3:30 guys would be similar to Manangoi off the juice - struggling to break 3:36.
We also know that Herb Elliott ran 3:35 in an Olympic final on cinders when he was ill, was a heavy smoker, and only started training seriously at the end of the winter. He was also only 22 years of age. Given that this was 1960, and the sport was completely amateur (he even turned down a million dollar offer to go professional) it's hardly likely he was doping, and we know for sure he didn't have EPO or even blood doping. It's quite reasonable to suppose that if Herb Elliot had been around today with all the advantages, training as a full-time pro runner and continuing until his athletic peak in his mid-twenties, he would run sub 3:25.
The fact that East Africans fail miserably at every other sport indicates that their only advantage is in having light frames (itself to a large part environmental), and are not good 'athletes'. It also explains why even Kenyan distance runners need to roid. That and the rampant doping and that virtually all professional sportsmen in East Africa are distance runners. So if there is any genetic difference between Kenyans and Brits, it's likely a disadvantage for Kenyans.
If you somehow could select the best 1 in a million talents from both Kenya and GB, gave them the same identical lifestyle, diet, training etc from a young age, and of course, the same drug testing, then perhaps the British guy would end up running 3:25 and the Kenyan 3:35.
I don’t see these kind of posts from you when some of the lighter skinned runners are excelling. Maybe I missed them?
George Mills is on drugs
How do you know this? Any inside knowledge should be blasted. I don’t believe for a second that athletes from poorer countries are not doping - there is too much incentive to do so, too little to lose when they get caught. When EPO can be bought from the local pharmacy cheaply, it’s also incredibly easy to access for even the youngest and poorest. However, I think a lot - if not most - of westerners are also doing it. Despite the testing being more rigorous and drugs maybe harder to get in the west (I’m ignorant here - maybe it’s very easy, who knows?). As Salvatore Stitchmo pointed out above - imagine coming up on your late 20s/ early 30s. If you packed it up in running after giving it a go for all those years as a pro or semi-pro, you’re 10 years behind your peers in terms of career. No way you’re going to catch up career-wise; also, who wants to train up a 30 year old with no idea? No one in the office will care about your running exploits either or how hard you trained. Also, at that age - is just much harder to mould and train someone (for both employer and employee). You’d be outranked and managed by people much younger than you, even if you could find an entry-level job that would take you. So, I believe that many start out wanting to run clean, but then réalise if they want to compete and make a little money before aging out, they have to join the dark side. It is what it is.
They are all using Nomio, Lactigo and bicarb now. And everyone knows how to train. that in combination with an insanely fast track for 1500m. I dont think it is so strange that they ran this fast.
Kejelcha is a heckuva runner with a poor kick. He also stupidly always goes to the front but is never able to gap the field like he would need to. He'll always be a bridesmaid but never a bridge in the big races.
Didn’t he win the race today by “gapping” them? I’m really confused here.
He's also wrong by saying that Kejelcha has no kick. We saw him push Ingebrigtsen to the line in that Pre 3k where they both closed in 54 for a 7:23 race.
I don’t see these kind of posts from you when some of the lighter skinned runners are excelling. Maybe I missed them?
Mayby you missed 400 Kenyan doping suspensions, as well as countless Moroccan busts, including many 'French', 'Spanish', and 'Belgian' Moroccans?
Doesn’t that mean they are testing and it is working? My question would be what is going on here and in another countries with insane performances? We obviously have athletes doping. So, are they not being tested, it is being masked, or it is being swept under the rug.
Yomif Kejelcha the worst last lap runner of all time? It's probably still Stewy McSweyn.
It was warm, too warm, 77°F (25C) and the dude went out at world record pace. He just didn’t have anything left. I give him credit for going for it. He could’ve held back and probably closed fast faster, but then people would be complaining that he didn’t go with the pace lights.
This guy deserves respect, he’s continuously out there racing hard.
Yomif Kejelcha the worst last lap runner of all time? It's probably still Stewy McSweyn.
Kejelcha is a heckuva runner with a poor kick. He also stupidly always goes to the front but is never able to gap the field like he would need to. He'll always be a bridesmaid but never a bridge in the big races.
It was warm, too warm, 77°F (25C) and the dude went out at world record pace. He just didn’t have anything left. I give him credit for going for it. He could’ve held back and probably closed fast faster, but then people would be complaining that he didn’t go with the pace lights.
This guy deserves respect, he’s continuously out there racing hard.
Love Yomif, I was being somewhat tongue-in-cheek. He went for it and paid the price. He actually picked it up his last 100 by a second, which was smart to save up a bit.
The thing with Yomif is that it’s really a last 100 problem. How many medals has the guy lost because in his last 100 where he should be rarely rigging or kicking he’s dropping down to a 14+ pace?
It was warm, too warm, 77°F (25C) and the dude went out at world record pace. He just didn’t have anything left. I give him credit for going for it. He could’ve held back and probably closed fast faster, but then people would be complaining that he didn’t go with the pace lights.
This guy deserves respect, he’s continuously out there racing hard.
Love Yomif, I was being somewhat tongue-in-cheek. He went for it and paid the price. He actually picked it up his last 100 by a second, which was smart to save up a bit.
The thing with Yomif is that it’s really a last 100 problem. How many medals has the guy lost because in his last 100 where he should be rarely rigging or kicking he’s dropping down to a 14+ pace?
It’s a problem many runners would love to have. He is one of just a handful at the very top of the sport. Also, still young. Let’s reassess his career in 6 or 7 years.
They are increasing their EPO levels naturally, by holding their breath for long periods of time.
The magician David Blaine had insane levels of EPO after holding his breath for 17 minutes and 4.4 seconds. His parkrun time reportedly improved from 30 minutes to 22 low.
The people who think that one's 30s are too old were the same people who didn't value sleep, who partied, who used substances mindlessly, or hammered roids and aged like milk.
It is perhaps true that athletes who train to their fullest will regress after hitting the inevitable peak, yet it is not inevitable or fully known WHEN an athlete will hit their peak, nor is it known for sure when all external factors will come together at just the right time.
People often suggest swimmers and gymnasts as proof that peaks happen early, but these are athletes who spend far more hours of training uptime throughout their childhood developmental years than runners or other athletes. It isn't comparable. Runners do not wake at 4:30 each morning, run for 2 hours, go to school, then run for 2 hours.
I've cited numerous examples of athletes reaching peaks of performance in their late 20s and 30s. I've added no depth of knowledge to the list except for random fitness YouTubers whom I cited; but I maintain that the point is to draw our attention to the fact that you don't have to peak at 22, 25, or wherever.
to refresh - we have numerous t&f athletes to have succeeded at age 28-40. Lyles, Gatlin, Hera, SAFP, Bekele, Felix, Blake, Warholm in his fantastic return this season, and an applause to D Braze in his return to form this season.
and to mention some YouTubers - Greg O'Gallagher - he did a 37" vertical jump at age 28, just training with pistol squats and baby weight exercises. He did a 55 second 400m with no specific training and far more muscle than needed (360 lbs bench press, 140 lbs weighted pull up) and base training.
Shout out to Greg O'G for being a shining example to oppose the purveyors of aging and disbelief in human performance
Also shout out to Greg for being a big baby and muting my comments on YT and never unblocking me on IG - it hurts, man, if you're reading this