Maybe this is a better question. Is it a controlled sprint? I think so
I don't disagree that it could be "mid-distance"
I think most agree that no matter what, speed and power is vital. You can have the best endurance in the world, but more often than not, if you train a 400 runner moving up to the 800, they will likely beat the miler moving down.
Obviously, sprinting 800m all out from the gun is suicidal. And I never said that's how you should race the distance. Still, with how fast athletes need to run, it certainly feels like a controlled sprint like how some others have stated.
Most world-class 800M athletes are the 400/800 type. It's more speed than endurance
It's the same reason why the mile world record 40 years ago was 3:51, which is 8 seconds slower than what it is today, but the 800M world record 40 years ago was 1:41.73, less than a second slower than today's 1:40.91
Most world class 800m Runners are 400/800 type? I really don't think so...
Case Study #1: USA- Top 3 at Trials
Bryce Hoppel- 800/1500 Guy
Hobbs Kessler- 800/1500/3000 Guy
Brandon Miller- 800/1500 Guy (National Champ 1500 in HS, and ran sub 3:40 this year)
Case Study #2: Olympic Final 2024
Emmanuel Wanyonyi- 800m/1500m Guy (Previously held road mile WR)
Marco Arop: 800m/1500m Guy (watch him average 4:30s for mile repeats on YouTube)
Djamel Sedjati- 800m/1500m Guy
Literally ALL the top 800m guys right now are more towards the 1500m side than the 400m side. Now I ask... WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!?
You're assuming these guys are automatically the 800/1500 type because they run a couple miles in practice... I can guarantee you the athletes you listed (except maybe Kessler) can run at LEAST 46 or faster. (but can definitely split it in a relay)
Bryce Hoppel has challenged Vernon Norwood to 400m and can run at least 46
Brandon Miller has a 46.30 open 400 PR and split 47 when he was like 15 years old
Emmanuel Wanyonyi is interesting because he hardly has raced any other events, but I'd guess with how fast his 800M is, can run at least 45 split in the relay
Marco Arop has run 46.10 so absolutely can he run faster in the open or relay
Same with Sedjati, he was apart of a 3:02 4x400 relay and I'd imagine he'd be one of the stronger legs
Most world class 800m Runners are 400/800 type? I really don't think so...
Case Study #1: USA- Top 3 at Trials
Bryce Hoppel- 800/1500 Guy
Hobbs Kessler- 800/1500/3000 Guy
Brandon Miller- 800/1500 Guy (National Champ 1500 in HS, and ran sub 3:40 this year)
Case Study #2: Olympic Final 2024
Emmanuel Wanyonyi- 800m/1500m Guy (Previously held road mile WR)
Marco Arop: 800m/1500m Guy (watch him average 4:30s for mile repeats on YouTube)
Djamel Sedjati- 800m/1500m Guy
Literally ALL the top 800m guys right now are more towards the 1500m side than the 400m side. Now I ask... WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!?
You're assuming these guys are automatically the 800/1500 type because they run a couple miles in practice... I can guarantee you the athletes you listed (except maybe Kessler) can run at LEAST 46 or faster. (but can definitely split it in a relay)
Bryce Hoppel has challenged Vernon Norwood to 400m and can run at least 46
Brandon Miller has a 46.30 open 400 PR and split 47 when he was like 15 years old
Emmanuel Wanyonyi is interesting because he hardly has raced any other events, but I'd guess with how fast his 800M is, can run at least 45 split in the relay
Marco Arop has run 46.10 so absolutely can he run faster in the open or relay
Same with Sedjati, he was apart of a 3:02 4x400 relay and I'd imagine he'd be one of the stronger legs
What a dumb argument! Just because they can run fast in the 400m doesn't mean they would be considered 400/800 runners. All of these guys would be more competitive globally if they focused on the 1500m rather than if they focused on the 400m and you are being intellectually dishonest if you disagree with that.
All of these guys train more like milers than they do 400m runners. there might be a short phase at the end of competition season where they train like 400m runners but for the majority of the year it is middle distance training that is better suited for the mile at an elite level than the 400m at an elite level.
Elliot Giles is a perfect example of my argument. The guy has 46 second 400m speed but look where he ended up! He is now a world class 1500m guy who just took down the road mile WR beating Yared Nuguse.
I also want to point out that are are acting like 46 low is extremely fast here. for these type of elite athletes, its not....
im also not saying their aren't true elite 400/800 athletes out there. but for the most part, the top is Currently dominated by 800/1500 runners.
I don't know what makes you think they could be as globally competitive in 1500 as they are 800. Their 1500 times are likely just as good as their 400 times. The point I'm trying to make is that speed is slightly more important than endurance.
I maybe should've stated that historically, most world-class competitive 800M runners have been the speed-based type (throughout the history of the sport, not just the ones today like Arop, Sedjati, etc).
Yes, they all have equally impressive 1500m times, but also sub 47-speed is practically a requirement
"46 low isn't extremely fast" well, neither are their 1500M times
Regardless, just because they run one good 1500m doesn't mean they can't likely run as good of a 400M if not better. 1:41 requires undisputable speed.
Bryce Hoppel has run 1:41 and has never broken 4 or 3:43
Brandon Miller???? @bmillertrackstar????What are YOU talking about????? He has split 44 in the 400 several times, he's a 4x400 national champion and multiple time all american. HS 1500 champ/record holder is again misleading because that was AAU, regular HS boys compete in 1600 and Mile. Gary Martin's HS mile was faster than Brandon's HS 1500.
Bryce Hoppel has run 1:41 and has never broken 4 or 3:43
Brandon Miller???? @bmillertrackstar????What are YOU talking about????? He has split 44 in the 400 several times, he's a 4x400 national champion and multiple time all american. HS 1500 champ/record holder is again misleading because that was AAU, regular HS boys compete in 1600 and Mile. Gary Martin's HS mile was faster than Brandon's HS 1500.
Is this a miler?!?!?!?
Wanyonyi's probably an solid miler - but he only had the road mile world record because they weren't even recording it til 2023. Again, misleading.
Sedjati doesn't even seem to have a recorded 1500?
You are either misinformed or aware of these things and lying through your keyboard keys brother.
Brandon Millers official 400m PB is 46.3 which is worth 1091 IAAF points. His official 1500m PB is 3:40.11 which is worth 1105. Out of all the people I mentioned he is the MOST like a 400/800 athlete and his 1500m PB is STILL better then his 400m PB.
You are still yet to disprove what I said: The majority of world class 800m athletes RIGHT NOW lean more towards 800/1500 than the 400/800. This is a factually true statement.
So instead of getting mad at my claims, you should think about why you believe what you believe.
Brandon Millers official 400m PB is 46.3 which is worth 1091 IAAF points. His official 1500m PB is 3:40.11 which is worth 1105. Out of all the people I mentioned he is the MOST like a 400/800 athlete and his 1500m PB is STILL better then his 400m PB.
You are still yet to disprove what I said: The majority of world class 800m athletes RIGHT NOW lean more towards 800/1500 than the 400/800. This is a factually true statement.
So instead of getting mad at my claims, you should think about why you believe what you believe.
Calling Brandon Miller 800/1500 is just outright dumb. In no way is he an endurance-based athlete.
And just face it. Neither their 400 or 1500 times matter because they likely only run those events for practice. What Miller splits in a competitive 4x400 is what matters. Same applies to all other athletes
Mark Wetmore has observed that the number of athletes who can hold a world-class 800 meter pace for one lap numbers in the thousands, while those who can sustain it for the full two laps is only a handful. What most athletes lack is not the speed but the strength to sustain world class 800 meter speed.
Mark Wetmore has observed that the number of athletes who can hold a world-class 800 meter pace for one lap numbers in the thousands, while those who can sustain it for the full two laps is only a handful. What most athletes lack is not the speed but the strength to sustain world class 800 meter speed.
And the number of athletes who can hold a world class 400m pace for half a lap numbers in the thousands, while those who can sustain it for the full lap is only a handful. What most athletes lack is the strength I guess because by this logic the 400 is a distance event too. Or maybe your argument is retarded
12.5 per 100m is 1:40 800m pace. NOT ONE PERSON can run the 800m at 12.5 per 100m pace. No one! Ever!
However, the 11-12 age GIRLS 100m USATF kids nationals was won in 11.94.
Little girls can sprint significantly faster than the men’s world record pace for 800m.
Why on earth do you think grown men running 800m significantly slower than little girls can run is sprinting?
/eot
So anything slower than 9.58 100m is not a sprint. Because 11.0 is jogging for some sprinters. Got it. Just want to clarify we're all on the same page because it seems like half this thread is full of idiots
22 seconds is fast for an endurance athlete - and 800m runners need to be fast. Most top 800 runners were barely faster than 22 secs - Coe and Ovett ran about 21.7 and Snell ran 22-low. The fact is the faster they are the less endurance they have. But at a world-class level, which is what these top 800 runners are, 22 seconds or even 21-high does not make them a sprinter - they are nowhere near it. They are fast md athletes. A schoolboy sprinter who runs 22 secs for the 200 is not a world class 800 runner and never will be because he doesn't have the endurance - and that isn't achieved by training without the necessary aerobic genetics. The 800 is not a sprinters event; it is an event for runners with speed and endurance combined. Pure sprinters are never top 800 runners. If the 800 was a sprint the fastest sprinters on the planet would run it and win. They don't. They can't.
So you're proving my point it's schrodingers 800. Thanks. I knew you would eventually admit I was right. Now if you were a coach and you had an athlete who could run a 22 200m and another who could run a 15 min 5k, which do you think you could coach to run a sub 150 800m? The aerobic ability for a 22 200 guy is easier to develop than the speed necessary for a 5k guy
I'm not proving your point. You are confused. You are no more likely to turn a schoolboy sprinter into an 800 runner than to try to do the same with a distance runner. A sprinter is not an md athlete - which as has been said repeatedly here is an athlete combining speed and endurance. The price of being the fastest over a short distance - as a sprinter is - is to lack endurance. Top 800m runners are not sprinters even though they can sprint as fast as schoolboy sprinters. They are fast endurance athletes. And a schoolboy sprinter is not a md athlete at school level either. The sprints and md - which the 800 is - are different events.
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