COVID has caused cardiac deaths in thousands of young people.

Backwards Adjustment wrote:

Harambe wrote:

Did he say those words?
or are you over interpreting a statement literally because it helps your axe to grind against the vaccine or the establishment or whatever?

Yes it’s a personal decision - one where if you don’t make the obvious choice to get vaccinated then you’re bad at math, like endangering others, and are likely below average IQ. The beautiful thing about personal decision is I’m free to judge.

Im especially free to judge people who pay 8x more attention to well meaning, factually correct public officials then crazy antivaxxers amplifying deadly false propaganda that had demonstrably killed peopled. But sure let’s put on our literal glasses and drop about 5 Std dev of social skills.

I’ll quote him once again since you were too dense to see it the first time:

BIDEN: “You’re not going to get COVID if you have these vaccinations.”

I don’t see any other way to interpret the above quote.

He also said at one point that no one who received the vaccines had died from Covid. Again, overselling a vaccine.

My only point in this is to show that the government didn’t do themselves any favors in convincing people to get vaccinated. They bribed people, lied to them, insulted them and eventually threatened and punished them. You can be pro-vaccine and admit that mistakes were made by politicians and health officials…unless you’re incapable of being objective.

Backwards Adjustment wrote:

Harambe wrote:

Did he say those words?
or are you over interpreting a statement literally because it helps your axe to grind against the vaccine or the establishment or whatever?

Yes it’s a personal decision - one where if you don’t make the obvious choice to get vaccinated then you’re bad at math, like endangering others, and are likely below average IQ. The beautiful thing about personal decision is I’m free to judge.

Im especially free to judge people who pay 8x more attention to well meaning, factually correct public officials then crazy antivaxxers amplifying deadly false propaganda that had demonstrably killed peopled. But sure let’s put on our literal glasses and drop about 5 Std dev of social skills.

I’ll quote him once again since you were too dense to see it the first time:

BIDEN: “You’re not going to get COVID if you have these vaccinations.”

I don’t see any other way to interpret the above quote.

He also said at one point that no one who received the vaccines had died from Covid. Again, overselling a vaccine.

My only point in this is to show that the government didn’t do themselves any favors in convincing people to get vaccinated. They bribed people, lied to them, insulted them and eventually threatened and punished them. You can be pro-vaccine and admit that mistakes were made by politicians and health officials…unless you’re incapable of being objective.

Harambe wrote:

Backwards Adjustment wrote:

I’ll quote him once again since you were too dense to see it the first time:

BIDEN: “You’re not going to get COVID if you have these vaccinations.”

I don’t see any other way to interpret the above quote.

He also said at one point that no one who received the vaccines had died from Covid. Again, overselling a vaccine.

My only point in this is to show that the government didn’t do themselves any favors in convincing people to get vaccinated. They bribed people, lied to them, insulted them and eventually threatened and punished them. You can be pro-vaccine and admit that mistakes were made by politicians and health officials…unless you’re incapable of being objective.

You’re like the 9th grader at the lunch table who thinks taking everything literally is the secret to winning an argument.

At the time Biden made the statement there were multiple published results showing 90+% protection against infection with the dominant strain.

You’re hinging on one statement from Biden as if it defined the entire vaccination messaging while completely ignoring the deluge of misinformation from the antivaxxers for years.

The government released clear messaging that the vaccine was highly protective against infection and severe disease. You’re choosing to over interpret a single statement and act like that was the cause of antivaxx sentiment and not the dozens of grifters spreading murderous propaganda.

Of course I think they could have done better with messaging but the fact that you’re so hung up on this tells me you’re not being very rational.

Monkeys Skyping wrote:

Hi there! wrote:

The idea is that existing conditions may have gone undiagnosed and left untreated during the time when the health care system was overwhelmed. Not that they necessarily developed during that time.

For example, some may have had some jaw pain and because his physician was unavailable, that person’s “widow maker”, congenital cardiac issue went undiagnosed. That person who experienced those symptoms early in 2020 died in 2021 due to heart disease

Your original post reads as a statement of fact, "The dramatic and sudden rise was due to lack of healthcare as the health care system was overwhelmed with COVID patients." It seems now you're downgrading this to a hypothesis, "The idea is . . ." It's fine to offer alternative hypotheses, but in a good faith conversation, it should be clear that this is a hypothesis, not a statement of fact, and offering substantiating evidence in support of the proposed hypothesis adds to it's credibility.

A competing hypothesis, for which there substantial evidence is that Covid infection, like many other viral infections, can damage short and long term cardiac health. That there may be competing hypotheses doesn't really change the plausibility of that.

DanM wrote:

Harambe wrote:

You’re like the 9th grader at the lunch table who thinks taking everything literally is the secret to winning an argument.

At the time Biden made the statement there were multiple published results showing 90+% protection against infection with the dominant strain.

You’re hinging on one statement from Biden as if it defined the entire vaccination messaging while completely ignoring the deluge of misinformation from the antivaxxers for years.

The government released clear messaging that the vaccine was highly protective against infection and severe disease. You’re choosing to over interpret a single statement and act like that was the cause of antivaxx sentiment and not the dozens of grifters spreading murderous propaganda.

Of course I think they could have done better with messaging but the fact that you’re so hung up on this tells me you’re not being very rational.

December 16, 2021. Biden warned of a “winter of illness and death for the unvaccinated”.

What a demented clown.

Monkeys Skyping wrote:

Backwards Adjustment wrote:

I’ll quote him once again since you were too dense to see it the first time:

BIDEN: “You’re not going to get COVID if you have these vaccinations.”

I don’t see any other way to interpret the above quote.

He also said at one point that no one who received the vaccines had died from Covid. Again, overselling a vaccine.

My only point in this is to show that the government didn’t do themselves any favors in convincing people to get vaccinated. They bribed people, lied to them, insulted them and eventually threatened and punished them. You can be pro-vaccine and admit that mistakes were made by politicians and health officials…unless you’re incapable of being objective.

There certainly are many things about the federal vaccine messaging that could be improved upon.

However, given that you're using an unregistered username to dwell on particular talking point, does cast doubt on whether that criticism is in any way balanced by recognition of the anti-vaccine rhetoric of the time.

Whatever factual and behavioral criticisms Harambe deserves, and I've lodged some myself, at least he does so as a registered poster with a verifiable history and that's essential to a presumption that the discussion is made in good faith.

Backwards Adjustment wrote:

Monkeys Skyping wrote:

There certainly are many things about the federal vaccine messaging that could be improved upon.

However, given that you're using an unregistered username to dwell on particular talking point, does cast doubt on whether that criticism is in any way balanced by recognition of the anti-vaccine rhetoric of the time.

Whatever factual and behavioral criticisms Harambe deserves, and I've lodged some myself, at least he does so as a registered poster with a verifiable history and that's essential to a presumption that the discussion is made in good faith.

There’s already plenty of criticism regarding the anti-vax crowd in this thread. My contribution to the thread was to bring attention to the fact that vaccine hesitancy was also exacerbated by the government and health agencies. I provided a couple of examples to back my assertion. If you don’t think I’m acting in good faith just because I’m not registered here, well then simply don’t engage with my posts. I’ve seen plenty of registered users arguing in bad faith on this forum.