"When you look at the 3000m WR where he goes a full 2 seconds per lap faster than this it would seem pretty attainable but, and there is always a but, it is another 2000m of running which is a lot. I really wouldn't know how to factor that in until I actually see him take on a 5000m and really try and run a time - which I still maintain he's going to need to do and fail before he would really have the experience to go after the record in earnest."
You read what you want to read, as usual. I highlighted another important bit.
But you ignore his caveat, that another 2k changes it, because it doesn't suit you. What he is suggesting is, as he explains, so far only conjecture. He is basically saying that aside from his 3k performance Jakob hasn't actually done anything to show he can break a record in an event 2k longer.
This post was edited 7 minutes after it was posted.
You read what you want to read, as usual. I highlighted another important bit.
Bit you ignore his caveat, because it doesn't suit you. What he is suggesting is, as he explains, so far only conjecture. He is basically saying that aside from his 3k performance Jakob hasn't actually done anything to show he can break a record in an event 2k longer.
Of course everything is a conjecture. But "aside from" means that he has actually done something to show he can break the record in the 5000m
I know something about biological aging and medical experts determine the peak for strength and speed is typically the late twenties. He is several years away from that.
Precisely. So he is going for the shorter distances now.
So he isnt going to go for the 5k record till he starts to slow in his thirties? Garbage. Injury could come at any time. No one can plan a career even a year ahead let alone 6 or 7.
Bit you ignore his caveat, because it doesn't suit you. What he is suggesting is, as he explains, so far only conjecture. He is basically saying that aside from his 3k performance Jakob hasn't actually done anything to show he can break a record in an event 2k longer.
Of course everything is a conjecture. But "aside from" means that he has actually done something to show he can break the record in the 5000m
It doesn't "show" it. It merely means it might be possible. But he hasn't shown it in that event yet - and he may never.
You don't seem to be aware that what one athlete is able to do does not determine what another does.
You are the one always comparing what Jakob does or does not with others. Be coherent.
I compare him to others who beat him or run faster like Kejelcha, and only on that basis. I don't argue the fallacy that is being argued here that what one athlete does determines what another will do. It doesn't.
Precisely. So he is going for the shorter distances now.
So he isnt going to go for the 5k record till he starts to slow in his thirties? Garbage. Injury could come at any time. No one can plan a career even a year ahead let alone 6 or 7.
Garbage, garbage. Can't you have a polite conversation? He is 24. He has almost 6 years before he is in his thirties. Why wouldn't he try it next year?
You are the one always comparing what Jakob does or does not with others. Be coherent.
I compare him to others who beat him or run faster like Kejelcha, and only on that basis. I don't argue the fallacy that is being argued here that what one athlete does determines what another will do. It doesn't.
So you could compare him with Komen until 2 months ago because Komen was faster over 3000m but not anymore? Silly.
1. Jakob hasn’t attempted to run a WR (or even a PR) in the 5K. All of his fast Diamond League efforts have been at shorter distances where he has performed ably.
2. Jakob is undefeated over the past five years in the 5000m with nine victories (excluding heats). His last loss in a 5000m was Doha 2019. In his nine victories, he hasn’t needed to run faster than 12:48 to win.
Until he is beaten in a 5000m, we should assume that 12:48 does not represent his true potential.
That isn't the point. I haven't argued he can't go faster than 12:48 - although he hasn't done so in 3 years. But what it shows is that he is a long way off 12:35. There is nothing that so far suggests he will get that record.
You keep asserting that he hasn’t improved his PR of 12:48 in 3 years. It seems like that’s a sticking point with you.
Recently read this thread and a year later Salvatore's post still seems pretty relevant in that he needs to go through 800m in 1:50 high to even have a shot at the 1500 WR. Closing in sub 40 seems unrealistic.
What does he set the lights to for the 5000m though? Can he do it going completely even through 3k in 12:35 pace (7:33) and just sit on the lights until the bell? Should he go through 3k slower so that he can close in a 55-56 second last lap, perhaps 7:37? Are the 5 extra laps from a 3k going to hurt him? I feel like given his 7:17 3k, 7:37 through 3k should feel "easier" and he probably can close in around 4:53-4:55 for the final 2k, does it really seem that easy? Can he still do this going through 3k in 7:33? Is 12:35 weaker than 7:17 or am I just delusional? What do we think is his dream 5k WR attempt?
Discus
Good follow up to the 1500m question.
Here are some interesting patterns from his 1500/2k/3k/2mile PR's with respect to the final laps and the average pace he runs prior to hitting the bell
Monaco 1500m - 54.2 FL, avg pace prior = 55.5
Brussels 2000m - 55.1 FL, avg pace prior = 56.0
Silesia 3000m - 55.6 FL, avg pace prior = 58.7
Paris 2mile - 55.6 FL, avg pace prior = 59.6
The science behind what he is doing is pretty simple. The pace is set for him to get to 400m out under his threshold and they know his anaerobic power is sufficient to run these sorts of finishes relative to the distance he's run already (and the associated energy cost of that).
This is exactly how he would plan a 5000m attempt - I see no reason why they would err from the science here, especially as they know he has this superpower to make up a ton of time in that final 400m this way. Just keeping it relatively simple (as I know the above might seem complicated) I would really be keying off those 3000/2 mile data points and guessing he would be looking/be able to run in the high 56's/low 57's for a final lap given the increase in distance he has to run. Let's put the time at 12.35.0 so he needs to be at 4600m around the low 11.38's to be in with a shot. We know he's going to run these laps all dead even as he's basically done prior to the last lap in all his best races so that means he's looking at an average of 60.7 per lap for 11.5 and then opening up the burners in the final 400.
When you look at the 3000m WR where he goes a full 2 seconds per lap faster than this it would seem pretty attainable but, and there is always a but, it is another 2000m of running which is a lot. I really wouldn't know how to factor that in until I actually see him take on a 5000m and really try and run a time - which I still maintain he's going to need to do and fail before he would really have the experience to go after the record in earnest.
That's my hypothesis. They would set the lead light to get to 4600m in 11.38.0 and from there the rest is up to him.
An even pace is the best approach to setting a record. Going through 4600m at 11:35, and finishing with a 59, will get it done.
No, but brojos get paid to keep him busy here. It's in the government's interest to keep that lowlife piece of garbage off the streets and away from the decent folk.
No, but brojos get paid to keep him busy here. It's in the government's interest to keep that lowlife piece of garbage off the streets and away from the decent folk.
Bit you ignore his caveat, because it doesn't suit you. What he is suggesting is, as he explains, so far only conjecture. He is basically saying that aside from his 3k performance Jakob hasn't actually done anything to show he can break a record in an event 2k longer.
Of course everything is a conjecture. But "aside from" means that he has actually done something to show he can break the record in the 5000m
It doesn't mean that. It doesn't show he can break the record. It means it is the only reason so far that suggests he might be capable of it. And nothing else he has done demonstrates it. So, by that reasoning, it remains a possibility - but that is all.
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So he isnt going to go for the 5k record till he starts to slow in his thirties? Garbage. Injury could come at any time. No one can plan a career even a year ahead let alone 6 or 7.
Garbage, garbage. Can't you have a polite conversation? He is 24. He has almost 6 years before he is in his thirties. Why wouldn't he try it next year?
When he isn't slowing? In which case, why hasn't he tried it any time in the last 3 years? If the argument is he has to get "slower" to go for the records in the longer distances - what a weird argument! - that won't be till he is in his thirties - if he isn't injured before then.
. So, by that reasoning, it remains a possibility - but that is all.
That's what everyone has been trying to tell you for days, dumbo!
No, they aren't. But I was also summarising Salvitore. It isn't my view. Most here think he will get it - as he has with the non-championship records. You can't follow a discussion.
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