Firstly soccer is more skill based so there isn't the same pressure to dope.
Secondly most fans are avid players themselves and don't feel the need to compare there own substandard performances to the elites. For them it's just a show.
The same hate might not get posted, but that I'm sure most people here would have the same underlying suspicions. I'm half expecting Georgia Bell to get busted in a few years but being an avid Brit I'm not keen to shout my opinion about that.
So some racial prejudice but cheats are cheats and I at least want them all to be caught equally.
When you can't even break 3 hours for the marathon, you're the last person who should be trying to make a judgment call on whether an elite is doping or not...just sayin...Some of y'all are way out of y'all leagues.
Guess who isn't complaining about her time? Her fellow countrymen and other African men. Why? Because compared to them she is where she should be. It is a different bar to be met. None of America's male marathoners would even make the Kenyan men's Olympic team. By Kenya's standards, the bar for marathoning in America is low. The rest of the world isn't gonna press the brakes on forward progress to give you Americans chance to play catch up.
But when Jakob run 7:17 in a 3000m you say its the good example of progress and the clean sport.
Pros are gonna do what pros are gonna do. Some will do whatever it takes. WHATEVER it takes. Like many other professional sports, it's a cutthroat profession. What's going on behind the scenes is anyone's guess. We can only accept it for what it is and let the powers that be take care of the rest.
I don't follow ball sports -- do forums for the big $ mainstream sports have every other post dominating by drug cheat accusations? Do people at a UK football match shout, "drug cheat!"? I imagine if they did they'd be scraping themselves off the parking lot pavement.
If LR had a bot that automatically transferred every unsubstantiated drug cheat accusation to the "garbage" side of the site, it would be better for everyone.
I think the major difference is the source of the entertainment value. Soccer players could all be and probably are juiced, but that doesn’t add much to their skills, playmaking abilities, and team cooperation. For endurance athletics fans, the entertainment values comes from seeing an athlete not just win, but run an incredible time that most individuals are not capable of. And that’s it, if these marathons were won in 3 hours, no one would care.
So many fans complain about obvious doping in running because it compromises the one entertainment value or achievement value of distance running and makes the sport not fun, because the performances are not authentic since the winning times are gained by drugs not available to everyone . Nobody cares if soccer players dope. They are still entertaining otherwise.
When I saw the time she ran, I came on here. I have to say I am relieved that this was the title and first post of the thread, also that there are so many upvotes on it.
Relieved and very sad.
This sport is a total disaster. It's not worth it for anyone with a shred of integrity to take part in. We always knew that cheating was out there, but it's so blatant, so comical these days. What can you say?
Add this stupid "performance" to the list. The list that includes Sifan Hassan's "trebles", Jessica Hull's miraculous ascent, Georgia Bell's "inspiring" return to form, Lose the Faith Kipyegon, Kiera D'Amato's agelessness, and so so so many more.
We're supposed to clap our hands together, and be happy though, otherwise we are toxic.
It is a view I have long expressed but it doesn't win any friends amongst the believers in this cult.
I’ve never heard you express that view until today
Posted this on another thread but it's pertinent for this conversation
Other than the 64 flat half converting to 2.10, I don't think this record stacks up against others as being any more or less suspicious.
Her differential from Kiptum's time was around 7.5%, which is pretty massive but I think this race today is better considered compared to Kipchoge's sub 2 given the conditions.
Namely, she has the massive advantage of being paced by two men who metronomed the effort, running in a big pack until around 20-25k and then coming through the back of the men's field in the last few kilometres. No solo running on a very fast course
TheRuth C.
Compare that with Assefa and Kiptum - 9.5% or Kipchoge's 2.01.09 vs Kosgei at Chicago (also paced) at 9.2%.
Take it back to Ratcliffe's 2.15 (paced by men etc) in 2003 compared to the then world record of 2.05.38 then the percentage gap there is 7.7% - a mere 0.2% difference between that and today's time compared with Kiptum's.
You're now comparing an exceptional performance to a derivation of 0.6-0.9% between previous record holders. Then only a 0.2 difference between that and the most alike comparison possible from history.
It's outstanding but not as impossible or improbable as some are making out
I don't follow ball sports -- do forums for the big $ mainstream sports have every other post dominating by drug cheat accusations? Do people at a UK football match shout, "drug cheat!"? I imagine if they did they'd be scraping themselves off the parking lot pavement.
If LR had a bot that automatically transferred every unsubstantiated drug cheat accusation to the "garbage" side of the site, it would be better for everyone.
I think the major difference is the source of the entertainment value. Soccer players could all be and probably are juiced, but that doesn’t add much to their skills, playmaking abilities, and team cooperation. For endurance athletics fans, the entertainment values comes from seeing an athlete not just win, but run an incredible time that most individuals are not capable of. And that’s it, if these marathons were won in 3 hours, no one would care.
So many fans complain about obvious doping in running because it compromises the one entertainment value or achievement value of distance running and makes the sport not fun, because the performances are not authentic since the winning times are gained by drugs not available to everyone . Nobody cares if soccer players dope. They are still entertaining otherwise.
In previous decades I might have agreed with this, but modern foot all demands extreme athleticism from players. All the top division sides now play a high pressing game and if your players are not on it, they'll get dismantled by a fitter but less skillful side. What makes Man City so formidable is that their players are all supreme athletes as well as being technically proficient. But saying that, dope testing in football is a joke. Not as bad as the NBA or NFL but close.
I don't know what she's on but combined with faster shoes this time is just too much to take.
Not sure what the age of all of you are but I am 59 years old, runner since 1981 seen a lot. Not just running but baseball. Barry Bonds Sammy Sosa Mike McGuire all the skeptical track times Daniel Komens 720 etc etc etc. It will never end. Technology advances, newer undetectable substances etc etc. The only thing u can go by is innocent until proven guilty
That's right. Chepngetich is slightly ahead of Kiptum if we assume women are 10% slower than men. But Kiptum clearly could have run faster given his negative splits. If we assume that he could run a full minute faster, AND put women only 9% or even slightly less ahead of men at the marathon (because they're better relative to men the further the distance), then Chepngetich's time today would be "in line" with men's times. As things are, though, it's true that Chepngetich's time today is slightly ahead of past men's times. How long will that last?
I assume that if Kiptum had lived, he would have run sub-2 in Rotterdam this past April.
We also have to assume that a woman who runs the first 5k at 2:06 pace, first 10k at 2:07 pace, first half at 2:08 pace in big positive splits didn't run optimally in your hypothetical scenarios thus balancing out the equation. That would leave the gap at 7.7% as it is right now
There is no way kiptum could've run a minute faster btw, he gunned the second half in 59:47. He would have to run back to back 59:47s to have run a minute faster
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