David Roche, new Leadville 100 course record said he averaged 65-75 mpw in the build up

Given that David Roche is the topic and how amazingly naive this excerpt is, I don't need to read the rest of the thread to conclude how much of an imbecile-magnet it must have rapidly become, especially after semi-professional dupe Sage Canaday decided to become involved.

Assuming you are not either David Roche himself or one of the stay-at-home goonish S.W.A.P. cult members he and Megan pay to Internet-fluff their project, what reason do you have for crediting this guy with "sub-4:10 mile speed" other then Roche -- a nonstop trash-talker and undelivered-promise specialist -- himself claiming that he COULD run under 4:10? Has he ever even raced a mile? Do you care at all about evidence or data? (That's one of countless funny things about this funny little man -- he feigns an affinity for hard data, yet everything he says about himself is speculative, and he loves to yack endlessly about "training theory" that anyone with a triple-digit IQ can see at a glance is nothing more than exercise-physiology word salad.)

If Roche had ever run a mile that fast, there would be a record of it and he would happily have linked to it already. Failing that, if he could run a mile that fast now, in his late thirties, he would simply shut his yap for once and actually do it. (I realize this thread is almost a year and a half old, but the point remains.)

According to Athlinks, a 22-year-old David Roche ran 15:48 for 5K in the late fall of 2010 in North Carolina, where the David Roche under discussion here went to law school (probably not knowing his license to practice law would be suspended in January 2020). Almost a year and a half later, a 23-year-old David Roche recorded a 15:15 5K in the same state, one week before running a 20:06 4-miler.

https://www.athlinks.com/search/unclaimed?category=unclaimed&filters=%7B%22birthDateFilter%22%3A%7B%22enabled%22%3Atrue%2C%22value%22%3A%221988%22%7D%2C%22locationFilter%22%3A%7B%22enabled%22%3A1%2C%22value%22%3A%5B%22US_NC%22%5D%7D%7D&term=david%20roche

There is nothing whatsoever about these times to suggest that Roche could have run a 4:10 mile or was ever going to remotely approach 14:00 for 5K. He probably switched to trails because his ego required him to feel like an elite runner; 15:15 for 5K obviously isn't terrible but a narcissist like Roche was never going to feel properly "actualized" at that level.

Also bear in mind how objectively slow the best ultramarathon runners prove to be when they do make occasional forays onto the road. Courtney Dauwalter is a great example, failing to run the Olympic Trials standard for the marathon (not exactly a speed event) of 2:37 even on CIM's notoriously fast downhill course last month. And ultramarathon god Jim Walmsley's road and track PRs are all slower than those of the top women alive (and if the answer to that is "those women all doped," my retort to that answer is, "You think given Walmsley's history and the state of ultras in general that HE'S clean?" with a ROTFL emoji for emphasis). Roche is no genius, but he's smart enough to know to avoid doing any of the track or road time trials he occasionally says he has plans to do; he knows he probably couldn't even break 16 minutes for 5K even at sea level these days. He probably couldn't beat his own client (former client?) Allie Ostrander at any track or road distance even if Ostrander quit using PEDs after her three-month doping-related suspension a few years ago (yes, that was a joke).

That the Roches have such a large and not only devoted but fragile and deeply defensive following speaks to what a garbage discipline MUT has become (and perhaps always was). It's amazing what someone with a suspended law license can accomplish with the right blend of ethics-free ambition, marrying into money, false humility, and shameless pandering to the neuroses of unwell Democrat-voting women (both female women and male "women") beset with unresolved body-image issues and a host of other free-roaming psychopathologies the wealth of SSRIs they're on are only making worse.

Other than all of that, I totally support and believe anything Roche and his fanboys and fangirls say about him. PIZZA!!!

Ok. There is some truth there. Can anyone watch this latest 'film' and point out any more nuts things David claims and does? I don't have 20 minutes to waste right now

It’s a good reminder that elite performance doesn’t require extreme mileage for everyone. That schedule is very balanced and focused on quality, with just one really big week and most mileage sitting in a sustainable range. The VO₂ max work, threshold intervals, and consistent strides keep speed and economy sharp, while the bike day likely helps with aerobic development without extra impact. It also shows how much consistency, efficiency, and years of aerobic base matter more than chasing huge weekly numbers.

Why are you referring to David Roche, or any other ultramarathon-only runner, as elite? Because he set a record at a distance at which actual elite runners never compete? Because he's better than you are? Because he's elite at running his mouth about being in 4:10 mile shape or 1:05 half-marathon shape and then never racing at these distances?

Every time someone who dominates ultramarathons (and Roche has ONE solid finish to his credit) runs a road marathon, it reveals with thunderous force what the economics of jogging alone dictate: ultras are the domain of sub-junior-varsity-level aerobic talents. This isn't an attack on anyone's character, jut an obvious an undeniable fact.

Look at Courtney Dauwalter and her 2:38 on CIM's downhill course after a 2:49 at Chicago, and now imagine how much worse she would look in a 10K.

Jim Walmsley is another ultramarathon god. But his track and road PRs are all slower than the women's world records. He's where he needs to be because he clearly enjoys mood-altering substances, but it's undeniable that the people he races are basically plodders in the greater scheme.

And it goes the other way too. Molly Seidel doesn't want to stop smoking weed or quit taking amphetamines, so she decided to abandon a still-flourishing marathon career and the money that would have accompanied continuing, just so that she can do whatever she wants in an environment that not only doesn't discourage but boisterously encourages doping and is populated by fellow lunatics, including know-nothing. coaches like the Roches. She's like a basketball player with Zion Williamson-level talent who decides to go play in China starting at age 26 rather than lose 25 pounds and remain a perennial NBA all-star.

IIRC he claimed to be in sub-14 and sub-4 shape at altitude after setting the Leadville course record the first time. He has done nothing to prove that he was anywhere near that shape. When pressed about it, instead of saying that he exaggerated a bit, he doubled-down. I used to be a big fan of the Roches and the podcast. I bought the pattern link but I unsubscribed shortly after Leadville. Between David’s ridiculous fitness claims and their shift towards more influencers than niche running podcast, I stopped listening. It was pretty disappointing to see David’s personality change so much so quickly. I liked the old David and Megan a lot better, in the early days of the podcast, before it all went to their heads. David went on and on about how he was in sub-4/sub-14 shape at altitude but did not come even remotely close to trying to prove it.

Alas, it was obvious to lots of people from the very start that the Roches were grifters and influencers posing as coaches. That's why they created a niche as off-road specialists, where they could win as runners despite no talent at all and get away with not knowing how to scale training with goals. With ultras, coaches can take credit for "their" athletes' successes but blame externalities for "their" athletes' failures, and the Roches are just smart enough to get away with this as so many of their clients are coddled, emotional wrecks with childlike minds situated in adult bodies.

Anyone marginally fluent in exercise physiology is aware that David's articles and posts have always been nothing but substance-free jargon-jugging. He pretends to understand scientific research by throwing in terms like "at the margins" essentially at random. He acts like he invented the concept of uphill treadmill training. It amazes me that so many people are gullible enough to believe he is an expert on anything besides sloganeering and making dirt-cheap emotional appeals.

And people don't go from being earnest to being rank con artists who sling unfulfilled promises left and right just because they've achieved a certain level of attention.

David uses his proud propensity for sobbing and his penchant for facile self-deprecation to hide the fact that he is not a nice person at all and is deeply insecure. He'll say, "I'm not afraid hurt myself again and fail!" rather than admit he clearly couldn't hack it as a lawyer.

Ask him to explain why his law license was suspended in January 2020. I want to see REAL vulnerability and ACTUAL honesty from this clown.

Also, they're obviously running a pyramid scheme with their coaching -- they either pay people to patrol the Web (including this site) to both post over-the-top gushing praise and report negative comments to keep the fact that they have ghosted paying clients, are fundamentally clueless, and on the whole appeal only to people just as uninformed and unethical as they are (and unfortunately, running -- especially "MUT" -- has become a magnet for safe-space-craving, credulous whiners of privilege.

Just my (spot on) take, which will likely disappear because it would not surprise me if the BrosJo are taking a cut from the Roches to burnish their reputation via the nixing of inconvenient facts.

The most dispiriting part? Megan's dad is filthy rich. They don't even need to be doing this crap even though they both abandoned their professional career tracks.

Insane.

10 x 400m at 60 sec (4-MINUTE PER MILE PACE!!!) biatches:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DXJ7f7aDpOB/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

Buutt he's being a chicken and pulling out of the Canyons 100km. Probs bc Zach Miller entered last minute?

This means not even going to try to go back 2 Western States 100? Maybe he's really going to go for his sub 4-min Mile attempt or sub 14:00 5k 'at altitude' on a track in Boulder? That'll be the day!

Or will he keep hiding from real competition on his Zahoo Kicker treadmill and Zwift power numbers while taking all the BiCarb, FEED CARBS, and eating all the burgers and ice cream?

Finally what happened to that other thread and the status of those SafeSport Coaching complaints/violations?

If you believe he actually did that workout, you have no business commenting on a website ostensibly aimed at adults (but admittedly overrun with adults with the brainpower and emotional maturity of children).

All this guy does is lie and people just refuse to admit this for whatever twisted reason.