Did Prefontaine ever win a race internationally?

The point of all this is that Pre's story is compelling ... not because he was a world-beater, but because he played the archetypal role of the beautiful loser, flew too close to the sun, the outcast prince, etc, etc.

It's hard to blame Nike for wanting to tell the story -- even as part of a marketing strategy -- or Hollywood for picking up on a great storyline.

Dave, on the other hand, has now authored an embarassing chapter in his own life story.

This is Gary Tuttle You are right, I did win that race and Pre only ran 2 miles. There were 12 in the race Pre, Moore, Shorter, Casteneda, Doug Brown, Ron Wayne, Jim johnson, Phillip Ndoo, Jim Johnson, Paul Geis, Don Kennedy, and several others I cant think of now. Most of them were Olympians, and I was not, so I had much more to prove that day than the others did. After a week of testing, we ran the event, and based on the data they had collected, I was picked by the scientists to win that day, and I remember winning rather easily. Gary

Gary Katz wrote:

CraigMac4h (forgot again) wrote:

Forgot to mention:

Gary Katz: If Pre didn't race the guys I mentioned, that's my mistake. I thought I remembered reading about Dixon outsprinting Pre in a two-mile in Europe with both of them setting national records. If not, my bad.

That does sound familiar so maybe they did race.

Yes. Dixon and Prefontaine did race. I believe, though I'd have to check, it was in Switzerland and Dixon won. It might be mentioned in "Kiwis Can Fly" which I can't get to right now.

I also seem to recall, and again, I may be wrong here, that there was some bad feeling between Prefontaine and Dixon because Prefontaine objected to Dixon's tactics. Eventually, that was sorted out and they became friends.

You're still running, aren't you? I seem to recall seeing your name in some race results from New Zealand.

HRE wrote:

Yes. Dixon and Prefontaine did race. I believe, though I'd have to check, it was in Switzerland and Dixon won.

8:14.32 Rod Dixon NZL 1 Stockholm 18.07.1974

8:16.55 Emiel Puttemans BEL 2 Stockholm 18.07.1974

8:18.29 Steve Prefontaine USA 3 Stockholm 18.07.1974

Maybe that's the one I'm thinking of. Switzerland and Sweden both start with the same letter.

Hi Gary, thanks for appearing on this thread. I was a fan of yours at the time, and I was really glad to see you win against that field. I thought that by dropping out, Pre robbed you of the chance to be the first guy to beat him on U.S. soil since Lindren did it in the 1969 NCAA cross country champs. Instead, you're the guy who might have beaten Pre had he finished the race. Pre's dropping out at two miles kind of belittled the event, in my opinion. By the way, I think Russ Pate might have also been in that field.

Your race was not part of an official meet, but still there was a stellar group assembled. And it was in connection with the Cooper's Clinic study, which was getting decent press in Dallas. So there was a substantial turnout in the stands on the day of the race. People were disappointed to watch Pre drop out. I wonder if he would have done that in Eugene?

By the way, I was just a high school runner then, but I got to talk to Frank Shorter one day for a long time during the week of the study. He is a genuinely down-to-earth guy who was happy to give me some tips and discuss the running scene in general. He also wasn't afraid to risk getting beaten in a low-key race.

What was it like hanging out with those guys and going through all the testing? I imagine that there was some performance anxiety in the lab. It's interesting that the tests results predicted that you would win the race and that you actually did. It just goes to show that winning really comes down to physiology.

Whoops. I meant to type "Lindgren" not "Lindgren." That's what happens when you don't proofread. You make some careless errors, which can be a great source of amusement to some people.

This is pathetic and delusional for either you or Gary Tuttle to equate this time trial with a race. Winning a workout isn't the same as winning a race.

Pre was the real deal. Tuttle was a stage prop.

Gary's Tuttle's best performances ever.

1976 OT

1. 27:55.45 Frank Shorter (FTC)

2. 27:59.43 Craig Virgin (IL)

3. 28:03.74 Garry Bjorklund (UCTC)

4. 28:04.42 Bill Rodgers (GBTC)

5. 28:25.16 Ed Mendoza (AZ)

6. 28:43.28 Ted Castaneda (CO TC)

7. 28:48.10 Gary Tuttle (Tobias)"It just goes to show that winning really comes down to physiology."

8. 29:24.19 Jeff Wells (Rice)

9. 29:51.21 Pat Mandera (UCTC)

1975 AAU

1. Frank Shorter 28:02.17

2. Ted Castaneda 28:32.70

3. Garry Bjorklund 28:36.6

4. Domingo Tibaduiza (MEX) 28:44.6

5. Glenn Herold 28:54.2

6. Gary Tuttle 28:55.4"It just goes to show that winning really comes down to physiology."

1974 AAU

F: 10,000 meters; D: 22 JUN

1. Frank Shorter 28:16.0

2. Dick Buerkle 28:25.0

3. Garry Bjorklund 28:28.4

4. Charlie Maguire 28:29.4

5. Gary Tuttle 28:35.2 "It just goes to show that winning really comes down to physiology."

6. Jon Anderson 28:49.0

Remember the time that Gary Tuttle once won a workout? It was easy, just ask him.

also in the "race" kenny moore dropped out due to almost shitting himself then when done came and jumped back in. lets start bashing on him for being a choker/non-clencher

Yeah, it does make you wonder why Pre would drop out of something that low key. Apparently, he just couldn't even stand the thought of losing.

As for the physiology, Gary's performance came just days after the testing that indicated he could win the other guys. That's an obvious point, so it hardly needs to be pointed out.

By the way, Gary is also a down-to-earth guy who doesn't deserve to be belittled. Unlike Prefontaine, he didn't end up getting vastly overrated.

you are a douchbag. pre overated? perhaps now but certianly not then. garry tuttle was an also ran in the champ races. no knock on him though as he would be like any other 10k guy today who runs 28:30's in a race against abdi and meb....never gonna be in it.

as i recall also pre went on to run a damn quick 2mile race soon after the week of testing. maybe he wanted to rest...maybe he didnt want to lose so he dropped out.....MAYBE HE DIDNT GIVE 2 SHITS AND DIDNT FEEL SO HOT AND CALLED IT A DAY! then when it mattered he beat the shit out of everyone in your beloved time trial.

davebedfordwannabe wrote:

Yeah, it does make you wonder why Pre would drop out of something that low key. Apparently, he just couldn't even stand the thought of losing..

You're a moron, and you don't understand anything about competitive running at all. "Why the hell would he run such a low-key event in the first place?" should be the real question. Geee, let's see if you can think just for once? It's January and Pre had commitments to keep on the indoor circuit. That could be it?

Nah, what was I thinking? Pre was worried about getting beaten by a nobody in a time trial!!! Yeah, that's the ticket.

The reason why Pre even toed the line in the first place is because he was there for testing and things. I'd suspect when asked if he'd run a time trial he said something like "Sure, I'll run a couple of miles. Why not?"

You can bet your last dollar that everyone who showed up at the start that day was nursing a hangover. Except Tuttle, of course.

Careful now. Don't go calling Prefontaine overrated today. You might find yourself attacked as a moronic troll. And heaven forbid if you should slip up and make the slightest error in one of your posts.

The thing you are referring to was a race. It was an off season race with no real significance in the larger scheme. But it was covered by some of the running media of the time and was reported as a race. It was set up as a race. If you look at the names of the people who were entered, you'll see that there were quite a few guys running. A time trial is generally considered to be something done on your own or perhaps with a training partner or two.

If you want to dismiss the significance of Gary Tuttle's performance that day, that's your own business. But you'll seem a lot more convincing if you at least manage to get your terms right.

Yeah you're right. Why would Pre even run in the first place? I mean, shouldn't he have realized that running his own little two mile workout during the race was pretty rude and distracting? Maybe some of the other guys actually wanted to compete. But really, why should Pre give a darn about people so far beneath his level?

but wasnt his legend built on the fact that he never missed a workout, or quit a race...remember that bleeding foot after his frosh 5000m victory

also when he rabbited wottle in the mile to the tune of a 3:52, he seemed to finish up pretty well...

Finally he damned well rabbited the last mile of the 1972 oly final...

Your excuses are tiring, and he woulda gotten ripped on the boards had they been around then...not to mention by all the europeans that had his number

Your idolatry has gotten in the way of your logic

davebedfordwannabe wrote:

Yeah you're right. Why would Pre even run in the first place? I mean, shouldn't he have realized that running his own little two mile workout during the race was pretty rude and distracting? Maybe some of the other guys actually wanted to compete. But really, why should Pre give a darn about people so far beneath his level?

That's not rude and distracting at all--except to one rude and distracting troll 30 years later. In fact, Pre's presence in the time trial it quite the opposite; it just shows his generosity and his sense of duty and camaraderie. Why NOT run a couple of miles?

Sorry to burst the rabid bubbles from your foaming mouth; Pre did give a darn about people far below his level.

Pre is obviously a much more interesting figure than any of the bit players being elaborated in this thread. Does that level of interest come solely from the order of finish in any particular event? Obviously not. Does his career inspire people? Obviously it has and will continue to do so. You can say that the Pre legend has grown beyond what he actually accomplished until you're blue in the face ... that's a matter of interpretation more than anything else ... but the fact is that Pre's story strikes a nerve with people, and it always will.