Coevett wrote:
Wanyonyi
Wooow, maybe god exists?
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42
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Coevett wrote:
Frederico Rosa
OK, was just a short bright moment.
When you are just not ABLE to write names correctly, I'm just wondering how many of your other presented facts are correct?
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Trackier wrote:
For athletes born and raised at altitude, the altitude may aid at 800m. Keino’s best ever at 1500m was at Mexico City
it helps only up to 400m where you are getting the benefit of decreased wind resistance with increased running speed; you are also burning energy more aerobically (65/35% anaerobic) in the 800m making oxygen debt a real factor in the final 200m..it would definitely be close to 1:41 at sea level with a 1st lap rabbit...
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Coevett wrote:
Smears? His coach has had at least six athletes busted, three of them banned for four to ten years for obstructing or tampering. He was arrested along with three local pharmacists on suspicion of administering EPO to athletes but the super efficient Kenyan police were unable to find any evidence (I'm sure they enjoyed plenty of the finest quality tea for many a week afterwards). He worked under Frederico Rosa until he was sacked over his doping associations.
I wasn't posting under Coevett because Rekrunner and Passant reported me for 'harassment' and I was banned for a week.
I think you’d be hard-pressed to find any coach based in Kenya presiding over dozens of athletes at a time who’s had nobody busted over the last 10 years. Where I think you are straining too hard is insisting that the coaches have complete control of the athletes especially in Kenya. In Ekiru’s case and in Lempus’ case you have rogue doctors doing under-the-table administration of drugs. You can read the AIU reports. I think there is/was in reality a network of doctors and middlemen working in this fashion. They were pushing Tri Acetonide for a while until that doping ring got busted. The Rosa/Claudio parting you can paint however you want but it seems most like Kenyan authorities were going to kick Rosa out unless he did something so he threw Berardelli under the bus somewhat while saying he didn’t think he was in on it.
Anyhow, my main point in all this is back to Wanyonyi. You and I have no idea his testing history or biological passport. What we do know is that Kenyan athletes are the most-tested in the World and Wanyonyi is an athlete who runs at major races with frequency. You can accuse him of doping as much as you want, and rip the Berardelli association as much as you want. But he should be judged on his own merits, not on the merits of athletes who idiotically doped with Tri Acetonide or anyone else.
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.93 -
"Kenyan athletes are the most tested athletes in the world"
That is a biased opinion.
"Kenyan athlete don't immigrate to other countries"
Kind of controversial opinion I read here from time to time.
A more accurate sentence would be:
We do a lot of efforts of testing athletes in the latest years.
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.06 -
UKValues wrote:
"Kenyan athletes are the most tested athletes in the world"
That is a biased opinion.
"Kenyan athlete don't immigrate to other countries"
Kind of controversial opinion I read here from time to time.
A more accurate sentence would be:
We do a lot of efforts of testing athletes in the latest years.
Not biased. Factual: https://www.athleticsintegrity.org/downloads/pdfs/know-us/en/AIU-Testing-Statistics-Pre-Budapest.pdf
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paul72 wrote:
Trackier wrote:
For athletes born and raised at altitude, the altitude may aid at 800m. Keino’s best ever at 1500m was at Mexico City
it helps only up to 400m where you are getting the benefit of decreased wind resistance with increased running speed; you are also burning energy more aerobically (65/35% anaerobic) in the 800m making oxygen debt a real factor in the final 200m..it would definitely be close to 1:41 at sea level with a 1st lap rabbit...
Wrong. Look at the horde of sea level runners who PR’d in the heats and final of the 800 in ‘68 in Mexico City. Keino certainly gained from the altitude in the 1500.
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Paul68 wrote:
paul72 wrote:
it helps only up to 400m where you are getting the benefit of decreased wind resistance with increased running speed; you are also burning energy more aerobically (65/35% anaerobic) in the 800m making oxygen debt a real factor in the final 200m..it would definitely be close to 1:41 at sea level with a 1st lap rabbit...
Wrong. Look at the horde of sea level runners who PR’d in the heats and final of the 800 in ‘68 in Mexico City. Keino certainly gained from the altitude in the 1500.
Exactly. I have posted this article before
You have also the example of Omanyala who run 9.7x in Kenya and never go under 10.00 in World Championships, and mostly get eliminated in the semi-finals.
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Salvitore Stitchmo wrote:
THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:
You’re really thinking altitude matters? For one, it’s 5,500 feet. For another it’s a Kenyan in an 800m race. Having one data point of Rudisha is not conclusive at all. How about the scores of Kenyan 800m runners who only marginally improve if at all in European races from a time perspective.
I use Rudisha because he's the only relevant guy we have to make a comparison. When he ran 1.42.1 on that track back in 2012 I remember it was a pretty big deal for this reason. Nobody else has really approached that sort of performance level at this altitude.
Ralph Doubell from Australia ran a world record 1:44.30 at the Mexico City Olympics (2,240 m / 7,350 ft) in 1968, and never bettered that time anywhere else.
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Roger meyers wrote:
1500m-enthusiast wrote:
Does anyone have an exact split for the first lap? In the video the clock isn't visible until they've passed the 400m mark showing 50, but it must've been like 49.mid right?
I was thinking high 49/low 50
Low 50, so about 1.5 sec positive split.
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How is this not trending? He lead the whole time - I can't wait to the Olympic finals.
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Coevett wrote:
Smears? His coach has had at least six athletes busted, three of them banned for four to ten years for obstructing or tampering. He was arrested along with three local pharmacists on suspicion of administering EPO to athletes but the super efficient Kenyan police were unable to find any evidence (I'm sure they enjoyed plenty of the finest quality tea for many a week afterwards). He worked under Frederico Rosa until he was sacked over his doping associations.
I wasn't posting under Coevett because Rekrunner and Passant reported me for 'harassment' and I was banned for a week.
Weekly bans are perfect for you. I hope learned your lesson. Without proof, you should be banned temporarily for each doping accusation.
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THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:
Wanyonyi Nairobi 2024
24.3-49.95-1:15.6-1:41.70
24.3+25.65+25.65+26.140 -
THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:
Wow. So he needs to get through 600m just a little faster. Very good pacing - especially without a pacer.
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THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:
coach ewe wrote:
a "totally controlled" wire-to-wire win in 1:41 that saw just over a 1 second PB improvement after 3 seasons in a row of consistently running 1:43.5 give or take a half second
i'll literally be shocked if he doesn't get sanctioned within a year.
that was the easiest 1:41 that has ever been run. honestly looked like he could have held that pace another 200 meters at least and knocked out a 2:07 1k 🤣
Last year he ran 1:43.32 or faster 4 times including 1:42.80. And he went from Budapest to Xiamen, China to Eugene, Oregon over a 3-week span will hitting his 2 fastest times and earning a silver medal. Not exactly ideal.
went back and watched his races and have to admit this guy never looks tired after a race. sometimes when an athlete wins they get a burst of energy and won't look tired compared to the other competitors, so i watched his world champs race where he got 2nd (thus taken to his limit for sure since he didn't win) and he never bends over to put his hands on his knees or lay down or anything like that. keeps his head held high every time.
so the whole making it look too easy bit is pretty much this guys m.o.
in 2023 he ran between 1:42.80 - 1:43.32 four times, with his other 7 results being 1:43.83 - 1:44.92 plus a 1:46 that was in a qualifying heat.
in 2024 he ran 1:43.57, 1:43.84, 1:51.76 (got tripped in a qualifying heat) then 1:41.70.
in his career he's run 1:43s seven times, twice in 2024, six in 2023, once in 2021
he had broken 1:43 with that 1:42.80 just once, coming last year at prefontaine
doping or not, 1:41.70 is a totally new level for Wanyonyi
2nd place Wycliffe Kinyamal had a very similar breakthrough: he had run in the 1:43s every season since 2017 (excluding 2020). his PB of 1:43.12 came in 2018 with his 2nd fastest result of 1:43.22 in 2023 so he's been extremely consistent. broke 1:43 for the first time in his career with his 1:42.50.
3rd place Koitatoi Kidali had the biggest breakthrough of all: he ran sub-1:46 once in 2022, once again in 2023, and then twice this season going 1:45.72 and 1:45.78. dude just dropped his SB by over 3 seconds and his PB of 1:45.24 from 2022 improved by 2.58 seconds!
*anybody know where the results can be viewed for this race? been searching on google for about 20 minutes and haven't seen it anywhere. very interested to see how the other competitors did relative to their PBs considering the top-3 all had very significant improvement.
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dunes runner wrote:
Wanyonyi Nairobi 2024
24.3-49.95-1:15.6-1:41.70
24.3+25.65+25.65+26.1Thanks for the splits - very good pacing as others have pointed out. Gotta think that with a pacer, no rounds fatigue and at sea level the WR is possible. I was hoping Wanyonyi would have a 1:41 in him but didn't expect it to happen so soon, or in this manner.
This post was edited 25 seconds after it was posted.31 -
coach ewe wrote:
THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:
Last year he ran 1:43.32 or faster 4 times including 1:42.80. And he went from Budapest to Xiamen, China to Eugene, Oregon over a 3-week span will hitting his 2 fastest times and earning a silver medal. Not exactly ideal.
went back and watched his races and have to admit this guy never looks tired after a race. sometimes when an athlete wins they get a burst of energy and won't look tired compared to the other competitors, so i watched his world champs race where he got 2nd (thus taken to his limit for sure since he didn't win) and he never bends over to put his hands on his knees or lay down or anything like that. keeps his head held high every time.
so the whole making it look too easy bit is pretty much this guys m.o.
in 2023 he ran between 1:42.80 - 1:43.32 four times, with his other 7 results being 1:43.83 - 1:44.92 plus a 1:46 that was in a qualifying heat.
in 2024 he ran 1:43.57, 1:43.84, 1:51.76 (got tripped in a qualifying heat) then 1:41.70.
in his career he's run 1:43s seven times, twice in 2024, six in 2023, once in 2021
he had broken 1:43 with that 1:42.80 just once, coming last year at prefontaine
doping or not, 1:41.70 is a totally new level for Wanyonyi
2nd place Wycliffe Kinyamal had a very similar breakthrough: he had run in the 1:43s every season since 2017 (excluding 2020). his PB of 1:43.12 came in 2018 with his 2nd fastest result of 1:43.22 in 2023 so he's been extremely consistent. broke 1:43 for the first time in his career with his 1:42.50.
3rd place Koitatoi Kidali had the biggest breakthrough of all: he ran sub-1:46 once in 2022, once again in 2023, and then twice this season going 1:45.72 and 1:45.78. dude just dropped his SB by over 3 seconds and his PB of 1:45.24 from 2022 improved by 2.58 seconds!
*anybody know where the results can be viewed for this race? been searching on google for about 20 minutes and haven't seen it anywhere. very interested to see how the other competitors did relative to their PBs considering the top-3 all had very significant improvement.
I don't think results from day 2 are published officially yet. Though the clock read:
4th - Alex Ngeno - 1:43.74 (former PB 1:44.07)
5th - Aaron Kemei - 1:44.51 (1:43.55 PB)
6th - Laban Chepkwony - 1:44.83 (former PB 1:45.81)
7th - Festus Lagat - 1:45.16 (PB 1:44.31)
8th - Collins Kipruto - 1:45.97 (PB 1:43.95)
9th - Nicholas Kebenei ----idk---- (1:44.84 PB)
10th - Kelvin Loti ----idk---- (1:44.07 PB)
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coach ewe wrote:
went back and watched his races and have to admit this guy never looks tired after a race. sometimes when an athlete wins they get a burst of energy and won't look tired compared to the other competitors, so i watched his world champs race where he got 2nd (thus taken to his limit for sure since he didn't win) and he never bends over to put his hands on his knees or lay down or anything like that. keeps his head held high every time.
so the whole making it look too easy bit is pretty much this guys m.o.
in 2023 he ran between 1:42.80 - 1:43.32 four times, with his other 7 results being 1:43.83 - 1:44.92 plus a 1:46 that was in a qualifying heat.
in 2024 he ran 1:43.57, 1:43.84, 1:51.76 (got tripped in a qualifying heat) then 1:41.70.
in his career he's run 1:43s seven times, twice in 2024, six in 2023, once in 2021
he had broken 1:43 with that 1:42.80 just once, coming last year at prefontaine
doping or not, 1:41.70 is a totally new level for Wanyonyi
2nd place Wycliffe Kinyamal had a very similar breakthrough: he had run in the 1:43s every season since 2017 (excluding 2020). his PB of 1:43.12 came in 2018 with his 2nd fastest result of 1:43.22 in 2023 so he's been extremely consistent. broke 1:43 for the first time in his career with his 1:42.50.
3rd place Koitatoi Kidali had the biggest breakthrough of all: he ran sub-1:46 once in 2022, once again in 2023, and then twice this season going 1:45.72 and 1:45.78. dude just dropped his SB by over 3 seconds and his PB of 1:45.24 from 2022 improved by 2.58 seconds!
*anybody know where the results can be viewed for this race? been searching on google for about 20 minutes and haven't seen it anywhere. very interested to see how the other competitors did relative to their PBs considering the top-3 all had very significant improvement.
Appreciate you having an open mind. The results will be added to World Athletics soon but I haven’t seen them. Kidali is a big surprise. He is young I think running that 1:45 at age 19, but he ran a great race here and I feel for the 4th placer Alex Ngeno Kipngetich who finally broke into the 1:43s but gets outkicked. Will say rarely do you see a setup this good. 24.3/49.95 pacing by Wanyonyi and only 9 athletes with pretty clean runs (eg little bunching/physicality) from everyone. For Kinyamal he usually is leading and gets outkicked or makes a more aggressive move at 300 to go. Here Wanyonyi towed him along.
This post was edited 44 seconds after it was posted.60 -
I'm thinking that altitude might actually benefit at least adapted athletes in the 800, with equalizing at 1500.
That and/or there was no testing at this Champs and everyone knew in advance.
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