Kenyans are not dishonest people. Neither are Ethiopians. Heck, the runners from both countries are probably very nice.
It's just that there's a HUGE doping problem here. How many positive tests need to be announced before Kenya as a country is banned?
None, because Kenya is testing and catching the cheats and the doping is not systemic or state-sponsored. If you have a bunch burglaries in one neighbourhood, you don't arbitrarily jail the whole community. It's antithetical to every principle of western justice, and you should know that.
Like I said before, other countries are testing at the level Kenya is. The equivalent of some of these busts would be if European countries tested all the way down to their club runners.
The analogy of burglaries is a false one. Kenyan doping is no longer a few instances of individual breaches of the rules; they have shown it is a form of corruption that is throughout their sport. They cannot be trusted to engage with other countries' athletes under the rules. They are like present-day Republicans who no longer subscribe to democracy. They don't participate under the rules that bind everyone else.
So in just the past DAY alone we've had a 2:03 and 2:04 Kenyan banned. And we're pretending that it's only C tier Kenyans doping?
Kenya doesn’t give AF anymore. One caught another guy fills his place. Sport Anti corruption in Kenya is corrupt. A punishment needs to be given like it was to Russia.
My problem with that is that typically it's the AIU catching the high caliber Kenyans, not Kenya. Saruni is a noticeable exception here, but others? Cherono, Kipruto, Wanjiru, Kipsang, Kiprop, Sumgong, the list of AIU catches goes and on.
Belet (part of this group) was ADAK. I believe Taki and Brenda Chebet were too. Since AIU conducts a higher proportion of tests for top athletes it kinda makes sense that it shakes out how it does. ABP cases will be their domain as well.
The majority of distance runners nabbed by ADAK are for steroids. This suggests that they are not able to effectively test for EPO, despite all the tests they are conducting.
The idea that a distance runner would take steroids but not EPO is ridiculous. And if so many of these 'club runners' as El K calls them, are able to get their hands on steroids, then it exposes the lie that El K (and others) make in asserting that even elite Kenyans are too poor and unsophisticated to afford or to be able to get hold of EPO (unlike supposedly Western athletes).
Time to ban Kenya from world / Olympic championships for at least 4 years
It has been on the table. I was interested in how many athletes competing at these events have been sanctioned for doping. Kenya entered between 40-45 athletes in each competition. So I guess the question is if you believe Kenya is making good-faith efforts to catch dopers, do the potentially clean athletes deserve a ban for the ones getting caught.
Tokyo (6- 1 caught in build-up) Banned Athletes: Mark Otieno - Banned before Competing Michael Saruni - Banned for Refusing Test Rhonex Kipruto - Banned for ABP Violation Lawrence Cherono - Banned Lilian Rengeruk - Banned for what was deemed accidental use of hormone therapy Mathew Sawe- Banned
Eugene (3)
Banned Athletes: Gloria Kite- Tainted Vitamin B Supplement ~ 4 year ban reduced to 2 Rodgers Kwemoi- ABP Kumari Taki- EPO ban that may be lifted (unclear) Budapest (2 ~ 1 caught in build-up)
Banned Athletes: Joshua Belet - Roids Brenda Chebet - Banned before Competing
Nice piece of sophistry there. Names will be added to those lists over the coming months and years. The world U20 champion from 2010 was one of those busted yesterday. If you look at the 2017 World Championships it's something like over 1/3 of the Kenyan male track team have been suspended since then. It will probably be higher for more recent World Championships because of the improvement in testing standards.
It's like when you presented a list of the top Kenyan half-marathon times between certain years as way of showing how unobjective I am and that it's possible to prove any side of an argument by selecting arbitary parameters. I think it took only a few weeks for the first bust from your list, and since then at least another 2 or 3.
When a country's participation in a sport is completely undermining faith that what we are witnessing is 'real', then that country needs to be banned for the survival of the sport.
Kenyans are not dishonest people. Neither are Ethiopians. Heck, the runners from both countries are probably very nice.
It's just that there's a HUGE doping problem here. How many positive tests need to be announced before Kenya as a country is banned?
None, because Kenya is testing and catching the cheats and the doping is not systemic or state-sponsored. If you have a bunch burglaries in one neighbourhood, you don't arbitrarily jail the whole community. It's antithetical to every principle of western justice, and you should know that.
Like I said before, other countries are testing at the level Kenya is. The equivalent of some of these busts would be if European countries tested all the way down to their club runners.
A better example would be barring visitors from certain countries (with high infection rates) during the Covid pandemic. It's up to Athletics Kenya to ensure that they are sending clean teams to Championships, and as they evidently can't do that, despite all the testing, then they need to be banned.
So you used to say that the number of Kenyan busts was because Kenya had more elite distance runners than the rest of the world combined. But now you're saying these 2:15 marathoners getting busted for steroids are simply 'club runners'?
It is the usual question trying to separate knowledge from the hype. Do Kenyans dope "like crazy"? Is that knowledge? Can we say we know it is more than 10% of Kenyan athletes who dope intentionally?
The AIU says they are exploited, because there are so many talented runners to start with. Brett Clothier describes it as a pyramid of hundreds, if not a thousand, of next-level runners hoping to make it to the top.
You joking right? 10?? With about half of the athletes doping, and Kenyans being the worst atm, it gotta be at least 3/4 of their athletes.
I don't know if any of that is knowledge. Can we say we know it is more than 10%? I haven't seen any reliable figures of intentional Kenyan doping as a percentage. Have you?
You joking right? 10?? With about half of the athletes doping, and Kenyans being the worst atm, it gotta be at least 3/4 of their athletes.
I don't know if any of that is knowledge. Can we say we know it is more than 10%? I haven't seen any reliable figures of intentional Kenyan doping as a percentage. Have you?
None, because Kenya is testing and catching the cheats and the doping is not systemic or state-sponsored. If you have a bunch burglaries in one neighbourhood, you don't arbitrarily jail the whole community. It's antithetical to every principle of western justice, and you should know that.
Like I said before, other countries are testing at the level Kenya is. The equivalent of some of these busts would be if European countries tested all the way down to their club runners.
A better example would be barring visitors from certain countries (with high infection rates) during the Covid pandemic. It's up to Athletics Kenya to ensure that they are sending clean teams to Championships, and as they evidently can't do that, despite all the testing, then they need to be banned.
So you used to say that the number of Kenyan busts was because Kenya had more elite distance runners than the rest of the world combined. But now you're saying these 2:15 marathoners getting busted for steroids are simply 'club runners'?
You do realise if theoretically Kenya got banned that wouldn't stop Kenyan athletes who've been tested (which is every elite Kenyan) from competing, don't you? The Ukraine war is the only reason you're not seeing Russians like Mariya Lasistskene on the circuit.
I don't know if any of that is knowledge. Can we say we know it is more than 10%? I haven't seen any reliable figures of intentional Kenyan doping as a percentage. Have you?
When are the Brojos going to ban this troll?
Why do you dislike people who bring facts to the discussion? Why do you want to ban someone who is polite and expresses his opinion by presenting facts? You make no sense.
Why do people who claim to love track and field downvote these posts. It breaks my heart that drugs are so prevalent in the sport. And I don’t care if they are African, British, Russian, Indian it just sucks that it can’t be a level playing field.
Shouldn't you be more concerned about who is administering these drugs to young athletes? Or do you just believe whatever Coevett tells you about morals and blame apportioning?
Why do you dislike people who bring facts to the discussion? Why do you want to ban someone who is polite and expresses his opinion by presenting facts? You make no sense.
Which "facts" are you talking about? I only see provocative questions designed to downplay the Kenyan doping ("Can we say we know it is more than 10%?") and veiled insults ("fans with no real knowledge of marathon performance").
Why do you dislike people who bring facts to the discussion? Why do you want to ban someone who is polite and expresses his opinion by presenting facts? You make no sense.
Which "facts" are you talking about? I only see provocative questions designed to downplay the Kenyan doping ("Can we say we know it is more than 10%?") and veiled insults ("fans with no real knowledge of marathon performance").
So which nation do you consider to be pure and righteous?
Why do you dislike people who bring facts to the discussion? Why do you want to ban someone who is polite and expresses his opinion by presenting facts? You make no sense.
Which "facts" are you talking about? I only see provocative questions designed to downplay the Kenyan doping ("Can we say we know it is more than 10%?") and veiled insults ("fans with no real knowledge of marathon performance").
So, can we say we know it is more than 10%? If we can, what is the real number? And where did you get your result? Do you agree a poster should be banned because he asks questions? Answer them if you know the answer.
Which "facts" are you talking about? I only see provocative questions designed to downplay the Kenyan doping ("Can we say we know it is more than 10%?") and veiled insults ("fans with no real knowledge of marathon performance").
So, can we say we know it is more than 10%? If we can, what is the real number? And where did you get your result? Do you agree a poster should be banned because he asks questions? Answer them if you know the answer.
So... you have no facts, just questions, that's what i thought.
You joking right? 10?? With about half of the athletes doping, and Kenyans being the worst atm, it gotta be at least 3/4 of their athletes.
I don't know if any of that is knowledge. Can we say we know it is more than 10%? I haven't seen any reliable figures of intentional Kenyan doping as a percentage. Have you?
Kenyan doping violations are like lemmings falling over a cliff. No other country is having its athletes busted at the same rate. But, sure - you think it's only about 10%. You are a wilfully blind idiot.
The wealthy west imposing his conditions to the poor old countries. An old game that was applied for ages in several domains (including the media pressure, report incriminating regimes ... etc).
What want the west is owning everything: more Mo Farah, more Sifan Hassan, more Kiketer, ... more North African making records for European countries (the examples of Katir, Habz, ... ere well illustrating).
Its already applied in soccer where they recognize only wealthy countries.
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