Sometimes you don’t need rules for things that will not happen.
However, there are enough Trans to make a separate category (look at wheelchair racing). Make a trans friendly environment and let them compete in their own category. It feels like they are not good enough to compete against the girls. Trans HS track records are way slower than girl records. When they start on hormones they stand no chance against girls. It is stupid to encourage these girls to start hormone therapy in order to compete. Why would you want to encourage a teenager to start hormone therapy? The Trans group is very uneven due to the transition issue. Their own category makes sense. Simply run the 200m, 800m and 3200m. No field events. Field events are not popular enough in the first place.
Swimming seems different. They obviously have an advantage there. A lot of it is about arm length, hand size and size of feet in swimming.
99% of trans girls who start hormone replacement therapy do not participate in organized sports. They take cross hormone whether there is any requirement in sports competitions.
Taking estrogen makes it far easier for them to sing in all female choir or play female roles in school musical, which is what most trans girls are interested.... far more than playing any sports.
Sometimes you don’t need rules for things that will not happen.
However, there are enough Trans to make a separate category (look at wheelchair racing). Make a trans friendly environment and let them compete in their own category. It feels like they are not good enough to compete against the girls. Trans HS track records are way slower than girl records. When they start on hormones they stand no chance against girls. It is stupid to encourage these girls to start hormone therapy in order to compete. Why would you want to encourage a teenager to start hormone therapy? The Trans group is very uneven due to the transition issue. Their own category makes sense. Simply run the 200m, 800m and 3200m. No field events. Field events are not popular enough in the first place.
Swimming seems different. They obviously have an advantage there. A lot of it is about arm length, hand size and size of feet in swimming.
99% of trans girls who start hormone replacement therapy do not participate in organized sports. They take cross hormone whether there is any requirement in sports competitions.
Taking estrogen makes it far easier for them to sing in all female choir or play female roles in school musical, which is what most trans girls are interested.... far more than playing any sports.
So your argument is that because this isn't the biggest problem we should just ignore it? Whether it is 1 or dozens of trans identified boys competing against females that is plenty enough to consider it unfair and it should be addressed. For the purposes of sport women = females and males should not be competing against them.
99% of trans girls who start hormone replacement therapy do not participate in organized sports. They take cross hormone whether there is any requirement in sports competitions.
Taking estrogen makes it far easier for them to sing in all female choir or play female roles in school musical, which is what most trans girls are interested.... far more than playing any sports.
So your argument is that because this isn't the biggest problem we should just ignore it? Whether it is 1 or dozens of trans identified boys competing against females that is plenty enough to consider it unfair and it should be addressed. For the purposes of sport women = females and males should not be competing against them.
No, I didn't say that. I said requiring HRT in sports competition has zero influence on the trans teens' decision on whether to start HRT. So no one has to worry about "forcing" trans teens to start HRT because of sports.
And as I wrote above, total and complete ban would be struck down in the court, unless you replace most judges with M@G@ extremists. So the best way to "protect girls' sports" is to introduce some HRT based restrictions to minimize the effect.
I am all in favor of a third category, which most of transphobic posters on this board are against.
Sorry to ruin your dreams, but Caitlyn’s pee-pee went bye bye 👋
Jenner claimed to have undergone "the full surgery" in January 2017 in Jenner's book and in a highly-publicized longform interview with Diane Sawyer for the ABC television program "20/20." But that doesn't mean Jenner actually had genital surgery to make Jenner's "pee pee" and testicles go "bye bye" as you'd put it.
The few times Jenner publicly spoke of the matter back in 2017, Jenner always made a point of using the most vague terms possible - "the full surgery," "complete gender confirmation," "the surgery," "living as a female," "for all intents and purposes I am fully a woman" - then would immediately change or drop the subject.
Jenner told Diane Sawyer in 2017:
“I do mention in the book everything I did. But I wasn’t less of a woman the day before I had the surgery than I was the day after I had the surgery... [And mentiong "the surgery in the book] doesn’t mean in the future that I have to talk about it, that I’m going to dwell. The media may but I’m not going to dwell on that subject. And I would make a suggestion to all people out there -- don’t ask the question. It’s not an appropriate question to ask any transperson.”
A few years later during a televised roast of another male celebrity - a Hollywood comedian, IIRC - Jenner used Jenner's time at the podium to quip, "I didn't really cut if off. I just retired it."
So I'd take the claims Jenner made in 2017 with a grain of salt.
BTW, a lot of prominent trans-identified males have claimed to have had so-called "sex change" surgeries on their genitals when they haven't.
For example, American social media stars Gigi Gorgeous and Blaire White - each of whom has millions of subscribers on YouTube and other platforms - both made these claims when they first started becoming famous for being trans. But later on, both made videos confessing that they actually still had all their original male parts and revealing they were trying and hoping to be able to generate enough viable sperm to father children.
Gorgeous has since reported success on YouTube, other online platforms and in mainstream media appearances. In a frank YT video, Gorgeous says that after going off T suppressants and giving up the practice of "tucking," Gorgeous was able to produce enough viable sperm to have a child through IVF with Gorgeous' spouse, Nats Getty. (Getty, one of the heirs to the Getty oil fortune who has struggled with heroin and alcohol addiction since early adolescence, became a so-called transman since hooking up with Gorgeous.) Gorgeous says the couple has several more IVF embryos on ice.
Sadly for Blaire White, White's efforts to recoup fertility didn't go as swimmingly as Gigi Gorgeous' did.
Glad to have drawn the world’s premier expert/researcher on Caitlyn Jenner’s genitalia! This is a special moment for Letsrun.
Jenner claimed to have undergone "the full surgery" in January 2017 in Jenner's book and in a highly-publicized longform interview with Diane Sawyer for the ABC television program "20/20." But that doesn't mean Jenner actually had genital surgery to make Jenner's "pee pee" and testicles go "bye bye" as you'd put it.
The few times Jenner publicly spoke of the matter back in 2017, Jenner always made a point of using the most vague terms possible - "the full surgery," "complete gender confirmation," "the surgery," "living as a female," "for all intents and purposes I am fully a woman" - then would immediately change or drop the subject.
Jenner told Diane Sawyer in 2017:
“I do mention in the book everything I did. But I wasn’t less of a woman the day before I had the surgery than I was the day after I had the surgery... [And mentiong "the surgery in the book] doesn’t mean in the future that I have to talk about it, that I’m going to dwell. The media may but I’m not going to dwell on that subject. And I would make a suggestion to all people out there -- don’t ask the question. It’s not an appropriate question to ask any transperson.”
A few years later during a televised roast of another male celebrity - a Hollywood comedian, IIRC - Jenner used Jenner's time at the podium to quip, "I didn't really cut if off. I just retired it."
So I'd take the claims Jenner made in 2017 with a grain of salt.
BTW, a lot of prominent trans-identified males have claimed to have had so-called "sex change" surgeries on their genitals when they haven't.
For example, American social media stars Gigi Gorgeous and Blaire White - each of whom has millions of subscribers on YouTube and other platforms - both made these claims when they first started becoming famous for being trans. But later on, both made videos confessing that they actually still had all their original male parts and revealing they were trying and hoping to be able to generate enough viable sperm to father children.
Gorgeous has since reported success on YouTube, other online platforms and in mainstream media appearances. In a frank YT video, Gorgeous says that after going off T suppressants and giving up the practice of "tucking," Gorgeous was able to produce enough viable sperm to have a child through IVF with Gorgeous' spouse, Nats Getty. (Getty, one of the heirs to the Getty oil fortune who has struggled with heroin and alcohol addiction since early adolescence, became a so-called transman since hooking up with Gorgeous.) Gorgeous says the couple has several more IVF embryos on ice.
Sadly for Blaire White, White's efforts to recoup fertility didn't go as swimmingly as Gigi Gorgeous' did.
Glad to have drawn the world’s premier expert/researcher on Caitlyn Jenner’s genitalia! This is a special moment for Letsrun.
So your argument is that because this isn't the biggest problem we should just ignore it? Whether it is 1 or dozens of trans identified boys competing against females that is plenty enough to consider it unfair and it should be addressed. For the purposes of sport women = females and males should not be competing against them.
No, I didn't say that. I said requiring HRT in sports competition has zero influence on the trans teens' decision on whether to start HRT. So no one has to worry about "forcing" trans teens to start HRT because of sports.
And as I wrote above, total and complete ban would be struck down in the court, unless you replace most judges with M@G@ extremists. So the best way to "protect girls' sports" is to introduce some HRT based restrictions to minimize the effect.
I am all in favor of a third category, which most of transphobic posters on this board are against.
No state is going to require hormone treatments for a minor to compete in HS sports.
Many posters have suggested a third category but they didn’t think it though. What happens if one transgender athlete shows up for a tennis, or wrestling, tournament? What about team sports such as basketball and softball. Who wants to see a transgender athlete run a solo 5000m?
A third category would be a “compromise” that would offend just about everyone.
No, I didn't say that. I said requiring HRT in sports competition has zero influence on the trans teens' decision on whether to start HRT. So no one has to worry about "forcing" trans teens to start HRT because of sports.
And as I wrote above, total and complete ban would be struck down in the court, unless you replace most judges with M@G@ extremists. So the best way to "protect girls' sports" is to introduce some HRT based restrictions to minimize the effect.
I am all in favor of a third category, which most of transphobic posters on this board are against.
No state is going to require hormone treatments for a minor to compete in HS sports.
Many posters have suggested a third category but they didn’t think it though. What happens if one transgender athlete shows up for a tennis, or wrestling, tournament? What about team sports such as basketball and softball. Who wants to see a transgender athlete run a solo 5000m?
A third category would be a “compromise” that would offend just about everyone.
It isn't up to women and girls to provide a solution to boys who want to live dressed as girls. Regardless of dysphoria, euphoria, fetish...whatever...it's not up to girls to fix his problem.
Classic whiteknighting. It’s no business of men.
Of course it's the business of men. The vast majority people who've made the rules and set the eligibility standards for school sports, and sports outside of the scholastic context, are men, and have always been men.
The whole problem of males using gender identity claims to muscle in on girls' and women's sports - and spaces like locker rooms, loos, shelters, refuges, prisons - is the "business of men" because it's been created mostly by men for the benefit of others of their own sex.
Guys are being given free rein to lord it over girls and women and ride roughshod over our hard-won rights by competing in our sports, invading our loos and locker rooms, getting transferred to women's prisons where they can prey on female inmates and so on because men in powerful and influential positions - such as US President Joe Biden, Candadian PM Justin Trudeau, US Sec'y of Education Miguel Cardona, US Attorney General Merrick Garland, US Asst Sec'y of Health Rachel Levine, Illinois governor Jay Priztker, California governor Gavin Newsom, Richard Budgett of the IOC, the men in charge at the ACLU, numerous men serving as judges in the USA and Europe - have all decided that it's unfair, bigoted, cruel and unlawful to hold boys and men who claim they "feel like" and "identify as" the opposite sex to the same standards as all other males.
Yes, many women and girls say they're perfectly fine with males in female sports and spaces - and some girls and women even loudy champion this. But the world is still run mostly by men. If men in powerful, influential positions weren't on board with allowing boys and men into girls' and women's sports and spaces, it wouldn't be happening.
This is the nightmare scenario. Transgender athletes are not a new phenomenon and I am shocked that state high school organizations have not proactively created a separate division to accommodate these athletes.
I do not question the sincerity of this athlete but, merely identifying as a woman without undergoing hormone therapy creates a huge competitive advantage for her. OSAA really screwed up here!
Correct. But even if they undergo hormone therapy, they should not be allowed to compete in the female devision. The athletee is a biological male - zero biological males should be allowed into the biologically female category.
For some reason, some people think it's ok if the 7th ranked male takes hormones and only ends up as the 7th ranked female. False.
Would it have been fair if Usain Bolt got on testosteron-reducing hormones and instead of running 9.58, Mrs. Bolt only ran 10.58., but sitll won 10 Olympic golds? No. It would have denied glory to SAFP and Elaine Thompson, etc.
No state is going to require hormone treatments for a minor to compete in HS sports.
Many posters have suggested a third category but they didn’t think it though. What happens if one transgender athlete shows up for a tennis, or wrestling, tournament? What about team sports such as basketball and softball. Who wants to see a transgender athlete run a solo 5000m?
A third category would be a “compromise” that would offend just about everyone.
Third category in Track (Not every single sports)
You can’t have selective rules. How can a policy that restricts transgender athletes from most sports, be considered a compromise?
Transgender females want to be fully accepted as being women and want to be allowed to compete against women. You might vehemently disagree with that, but from their perspective, a separate category would actually be worse than a complete ban.
No, I didn't say that. I said requiring HRT in sports competition has zero influence on the trans teens' decision on whether to start HRT. So no one has to worry about "forcing" trans teens to start HRT because of sports.
And as I wrote above, total and complete ban would be struck down in the court, unless you replace most judges with M@G@ extremists. So the best way to "protect girls' sports" is to introduce some HRT based restrictions to minimize the effect.
I am all in favor of a third category, which most of transphobic posters on this board are against.
No state is going to require hormone treatments for a minor to compete in HS sports.
Many posters have suggested a third category but they didn’t think it though. What happens if one transgender athlete shows up for a tennis, or wrestling, tournament? What about team sports such as basketball and softball. Who wants to see a transgender athlete run a solo 5000m?
A third category would be a “compromise” that would offend just about everyone.
Let them run in the events as the gender they wish to identify, but in the result they score as Trans if there aren't enough for a Trans race.
Correct. But even if they undergo hormone therapy, they should not be allowed to compete in the female devision. The athletee is a biological male - zero biological males should be allowed into the biologically female category.
For some reason, some people think it's ok if the 7th ranked male takes hormones and only ends up as the 7th ranked female. False.
Would it have been fair if Usain Bolt got on testosteron-reducing hormones and instead of running 9.58, Mrs. Bolt only ran 10.58., but sitll won 10 Olympic golds? No. It would have denied glory to SAFP and Elaine Thompson, etc.
#sexnotgender
Math can be confusing. For some reason, the Running Krugers that abound here jump up and down if a trans girl who ranked 452nd among boys starts ranking in the single digits among girls. That’s hardly a problem because a cis girl would show a similar disparity in ranking competing among boys vs girls.
As for your Bolt hypothetical, maybe it’s time to cover a different sport as your views are clearly unhinged from those of the sport’s regulatory body.
Of course it's the business of men. The vast majority people who've made the rules and set the eligibility standards for school sports, and sports outside of the scholastic context, are men, and have always been men.
And you should want to keep it that way because men, especially old men, are far more likely to support your position than younger women.
If young women are allowed to get in charge of their own affairs, they will allow trans women to enter too many "women's spaces."
That's why you should absolutely support old men to be firmly in charge of anything related to trans people.
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