Why are people here so certain that Shelby intentionally cheated?

I have nothing to add except that I flew on a plane yesterday and one of the stewardesses was an absolute dead ringer for Shelby. Second secret career to keep up the cash flow while she waits to come back? Probably not I suppose, she'd invariably have posted something about it and the lifestyle is probably not super conducive to keeping up training. When she came through with the snack cart I should have asked for a burrito to see if it was her.

WTF does "relatively unique" mean?

something is unique or it isn't

Ok let's see:

"Even if you think it's unlikely a burrito was the cause of the positive test"

Even? Do you really think it's likely?

"unlikely a burrito"? CAS ruled that it would have to be a cascade of several improbable and highly improbable events, and ultimately it was synthetic nandrolone, so it couldn't have been from an uncastrated boar.

"why are you so sure that Shelby intentionally cheated" Because the - according Shelby's own assessment - the most likely source (if innocent LOL) was the burrito, which was shown to be extremely super dooper unlikely if not downright impossible.

"why does she have so many friends" Dopers can have friends. Does she have many friends? I only heard from her teammates and family...

"why would she choose to dope but not wear super shoes" Maybe the first generation didn't help her? She is wearing super shoes now.

I honestly don't understand why anyone would think she could be innocent, let alone why anyone could be sure that she is innocent. Four years ago, ok, but now? I have yet to see a convincing argument.

I don't really understand why you keep saying that she must be a psychopath if she intentionally cheated. People cheat, and then they lie about cheating. That is pretty much standard behavior for people who cheat -- it doesn't make sense to cheat and then tell everyone you are cheating.

It is not as if Shelby went all Lance Armstrong. She cheated; she lied about it. There is nothing psychopathic about it. Happens all the time.

See my other comment about how it would go beyond simply cheating then lying about it

Why do you fabricate "ultimately it was synthetic nandrolone"? The source was never established. Still today, it is unknown whether it was from ingested pork parts, or from supplements, or from nor-DHEA ordered from Amazon. This is all uninformed speculation. The CAS did not find that it was synthetic, or that it couldn't have been from an uncastrated boar.

Under a guiding principle of justice that everyone is innocent until proven guilty, the burden is not to argue convincingly that she is innocent, but to make a convincing argument that she is certainly guilty of intentional doping.

The arguments from the CAS decision falls short of making a convincing argument of intentional doping because of shortcuts permitted by the WADA Code to presume intent without requiring a convincing argument, that undermines and circumvents this guiding principle of justice burden in favor of a quick and cheap verdict, regardless of the collateral damage.

No one wants Shelby back in Track & Field. She got caught and cheated. It’s not time she face reality and stop nonsense.

Except rekrunner. 🤣

Absolutely ridiculous comment! So, you think a golden girl of American running wouldn't intentionally take one of the prohomoes, e.g.,19-nor DHEA, to boost performance?

I suppose that you're of the camp that believes only the Russian women runners intentionally dope, and Heaven forbid never an American female runner. Lol.

Not intentionally. Like most athletes SH was on a stack of supps. The RW article mentioned her spleen(lack thereof) condition and how she has to have biomarkers to monitor. As a world class athlete you would also need to remedy, Yes??

In SH case she was on a stack to compensate for this condition. This could have been dessicated glandulars, organs or spleen. This is actually becoming so mainstream now for your carnivore side nutrition vs the synthetic vitamin supps. Throughout this trial of being banned her podcasts, and constant food truck explanations somehow skirted around her own biological defective endocrine system.

This isnt some reach or debate rather it's extrapolated from everything to now. After her sentence is up, a disclosure? I'm sure her camp says it's all done and for the good move on if she wants to negotiate a contract for brands. Also that she can't yet go on a Kara book tour, NDA, etc.

Unbiased Journalists @ LRC? Brojos? 🦗🦗

In 2014, the ban for unknown presence was 2 years. In 2021, the ban was 4 years.

In 2025, it will be time that the ban is over. That is reality.

That's still one possibility of several. Ultimately the source was never established to any certainty beyond presumption. That was the point.

But since you ask, given the well known ease of detection, I think no sophisticated athlete since CJ Hunter and the 2000 Olympics would intentionally dope with nandrolone. It's simply not credible or plausible. Oral doping is even worse, as most of it goes straight to the urine (and in the testers bottle) never making it to the bloodstream to achieve the desired effect.

No, if an athlete gets busted with nandrolone today, it will not be from the only remaining Nike flagship team in the USA, unless it is unknowingly ingested, say from a supplement containing a variety of substances which may or may not be labelled, or, now wait for it, from consuming boar offal from an intact male, something we've known for more than two decades from scientific research. Rather it will be from unsophisticated athletes with unsophisticated support.

Occam's razor?

If I was convinced of Houlihan’s guilt I wouldn’t like your post, because you start it with a sentence you should know is untrue, (“No one wants..”) that weakens your argument…

Nothing shows her innocence. If it had, none of this would be subject for discussion. She would have been acquitted. These threads remain mere speculation against what was deemed most probable by a court. The shooter on the grassy mound.

LOL "grassy mound".

Nandrolonoe = 19-nortestosterone, which is an oil-based injectable anabolic steroid (one of it's esters is Deca-Durabolin: The most popular injectable anabolic steroid with bodybuilders - a real favorite with the Golden-era bodybuilders). It can be detectable up to several months - so you're absolutely correct that no sophisticated athlete would intentionally dope with nandrolonoe.

However, 19 nor-DHEA converts to nandrolonoe metabolites. This is an oral prohome that's sold in the U.S. as a dietary supplement. It's available for ordering online, and I've seen19 nor-DHEA at health food store in the section right with the DHEA & progesterone supplements. Lol.

19 nor-DHEA being an oral compound will have a much shorter detection window. It's along the lines of some of the more popular oral anabolic steroids with detection windows of up to 2 weeks (e.g. Winstrol, Anavar).

tigerfitness.com

DHEA Derivatives - King of Legal Anabolic Supplements?

The Guerrilla Chemist Bryan Moskow presents an inside look at DHEA & its derivatives, and their impact on the muscle building process.

Link:www.tigerfitness.com/blogs/supplements...

The dictionary will tell you that a knoll is a small hill or "mound". But I'm picking English isn't your first language.

Three simple reasons from my perspective.

1) She’s been narcissistic, insolent, and shady. For the first year or so of her ban, training with the team, being coached by the team, and making teammates uncomfortable.

2) She refuses to take responsibility, and instead has gone on a self-pity/victimization tour that is reminiscent of Lance Armstrong. Perhaps unfair, but her responsibilities are the same as all her competitors, which is to control what got in her body. She failed. Own up.

3) She only appears on interviews with people who are sympathetic and manipulable. In response to skepticism, her best defense was to go on a podcast with that HS boy who idolizes her, and she used him to be her spokesman and control the narrative. If she really had nothing to hide and believed in herself, go on with Ross Tucker or someone who wasn’t merely simping.