I was in a NIHS sponsored study for high level endurance athletes that studied heart rate, high level intensity reaction, and heart scarring, inflammation and cholesterol levels. At the end of the third test, they revealed what my likelihood for various heart conditions was and what factors to look for. Shockingly, not taking time off after major efforts caused more scar tissue and inflammation, and high cholesterol caused heart issues and inflammation. With rare exceptions, if you kept “bad” cholesterol down and took occasional time off after extreme efforts, no adverse effects. For any participants up to that point. They had tested nearly 3000 competitive athletes from across the country at that time. I believe the study is ongoing as they were hoping to make it global.
Agree. Let me share my experience with exactly what you just described.
I see a cardiologist twice a year. A year ago, my cardiologist found that I had high LDL. He recommended that I take Red Rice Yeast supplements. I did. My LDL went down at my next six month checkup. Since my LDC was okay, I stopped taking that supplement, but at the next six month checkup, my LDL was back up again so I've started Red Rice Yeast pills again.
Earlier in this thread, I wrote...
To me, this does not mean that you should quit training seriously and become a recreational runner instead of a competitive runner. To me, it means that serious runners need to supplement their diets with nutrients that have been shown to reduce inflammation, counter the effects of antioxidants, and allow muscles to recover faster from extreme exercise.
Since there are some studies that seem to show a possible link between various types of cardiovascular disease and extreme endurance exercising, I take several supplements recommended by my cardiologist for overall heart and arterial health.
I just ordered Red Rice Yeast from Amazon. What other recommendations did your doctor give. I'm 64 years old and have been running for fifty years, these days about 3-5 miles daily plus cycling.
As an older runner, I think there is more danger to mental health by not sticking to training programs, even if you don’t feel like racing anymore.
The problem I found was as I got older, I should have taken the emphasis off mileage goals and placed that emphasis more on “ time on my feet” goals.
In trying to maintain mileage goals nearing 70 and not paying attention to workout time ( while naturally slowing down) I broke down again…. Train smart
Training seriously is far too vague a term. Is 'seriously' 30? 40? 60? 100 miles a week? Are we talking double threshhold at age 50? 20x400@mile pace?
1. 'Seriously' is too constraining of a word. Too many factors from age, experience, physiology etc.
2. The studies that exist publish competing results.
2a. There are certainly some issues likely connected with long-term stress on the joints, heart, lungs etc.
2b. Those issues are undoubtedly better than the atrophy, heart issues, diabetes, mental deterioration and deficiencies in vitamin D, and gross obesity that plagues western nations.
Eventually it’s wise to move to maintenance. Same in other sports. Look at how messed up older weight lifters are. Old Ronnie is luck to walk nowadays.
I attribute my lymphoma diagnosis later in life to my early running years. At 73 I spend more time lifting, swimming, biking, walking, than I do running. I find quite a bit of enjoyment in various maintenance projects around the house. I do still compete on occasion, but the bug to do so is less of a calling. My medical labs are excellent, and I enjoy spending time with my wife of 50 years.
I attribute my lymphoma diagnosis later in life to my early running years. At 73 I spend more time lifting, swimming, biking, walking, than I do running. I find quite a bit of enjoyment in various maintenance projects around the house. I do still compete on occasion, but the bug to do so is less of a calling. My medical labs are excellent, and I enjoy spending time with my wife of 50 years.
Very interesting thread. I recently turned 60 and I have been changing the structure of my running over the last 3-4 years. Now, I run and walk most days. I might run a true interval session one day and then run 1 minute and walk a minute for an hour the next day. I run every day but only 1 or maybe 2 days a week are continuous runs.
I know many runners and triathletes who have had cardiac events and died in their 60's. I'm sure it's a possibility for myself. I'm willing to take the risk, at least for now.
I know many runners and triathletes who have had cardiac events and died in their 60's. I'm sure it's a possibility for myself. I'm willing to take the risk, at least for now.
It doesn't matter if you're in shape or not, when it's time it's time.
I was in a NIHS sponsored study for high level endurance athletes that studied heart rate, high level intensity reaction, and heart scarring, inflammation and cholesterol levels. At the end of the third test, they revealed what my likelihood for various heart conditions was and what factors to look for. Shockingly, not taking time off after major efforts caused more scar tissue and inflammation, and high cholesterol caused heart issues and inflammation. With rare exceptions, if you kept “bad” cholesterol down and took occasional time off after extreme efforts, no adverse effects. For any participants up to that point. They had tested nearly 3000 competitive athletes from across the country at that time. I believe the study is ongoing as they were hoping to make it global.
Good post.
I was in a study a local universty undertook - they compared male volunteers from four groups, I was in the age 50+ experienced endurance runner group, there was also a 50+ sedentary group, a 20-25 year old endurance runner group and a 20-25 sedentary group.
What amazed them (but I could have told them for free) was the very low resting heart rates in the cohort I was in, seems like everyone buys the resting HR in the 30s = elite athlete nonsense. What they also said is that our group had more in common with the 20-25 endurance group than the others and that every single person in the 50+ sedentary group was advised to see their doctor.
So, whilst endurance running may not come free of consequences, doing nothing certainly does not. What is the ideal middle-ground? It is easier to just run than consider what-ifs?
This post was edited 11 minutes after it was posted.
Reason provided:
missed qualifier
You have to listen to your body. I've been proactively logging mileage for 4 years and have already made plenty of mistakes. Injury made me rethink everything.
I’ve been training for 48 years, over 100,000 miles and never once considered health as to a reason for running and I don’t know any close running friend who started with me in the 70’s who considered health as to a reason to run
I’ve been training for 48 years, over 100,000 miles and never once considered health as to a reason for running and I don’t know any close running friend who started with me in the 70’s who considered health as to a reason to run
This whole thread is dumb, and your comment is also dumb. Jogging for health was a thing in the 70s.
there is a spectrum of different levels between the two extremes. Somewhere on that spectrum is probably the optimum that is the best for health for most of us.
if we're talking purely in terms of health outcomes, there will be a point where more running becomes detrimental and I'd imagine that point will be different for everyone. I used to see people run through sickness, not want to take a day off when injured and the like very frequently. That thinking has thankfully shifted but you do still see it. A marathon is a big event - I honestly feel a lot of people don't realise just how much of a stress it is on the body. Again, I've seen people force themselves to run the day after a marathon, which runs counter to logic (and interestingly someone in this thread mentioned the study they took part in which specifically cites this kind of thing as a risk factor).
Ultimately everyone makes their own decisions and what I feel isn't touched upon so much is mental health compared to physical health. All of these health outcomes with regard to running are physical - determining the optimal mileage for physical health outcomes. It may be that running more improves people's mental health (up to a point - overtraining etc) which then has a knock on effect on everything else. This could be different to the point for optimal physical health. If it makes you happy I'd argue that's one of the more important outcomes in terms of overall health.
I do suspect though that the majority of the research is correct and in terms of health outcomes more of a mixture of sports (walking, running, cycling, weight training, rock climbing, even things like paddle boarding) at a lesser intensity as we age is probably optimal. Research aside, it just seems like common sense. Look at the number of injuries aside from anything else. More isn't always better but I think everyone knew that already.
I thought you ran shorter distances. What’s your “extreme endurance exercising”?
FWIW, for CVD risk, Apo-B is a much better predictor than LDL.
I wasn't clear. I don't do any "extreme endurance" exercising. By extreme, the authors of the papers I've read were referring to long tempos and marathon paced long runs. I do workouts more typical of a 400m runner. Off the track, I do short, extreme efforts in weightlifting to boost my T level and metabolism. After a warm-up rep and a normal rep of ~12, I'll do sets 3 and 4 to exhaustion followed by a recovery of at least 90 seconds.
My cardiologist has me do several heart tests once a year. They show calcium at 37 so no problems there, but the arterial pulse velocity test shows a loss of elasticity in my small arteries and another test shows a slight hardening of the heart wall.
To treat these problems in the early stages, he has me take Arterosill, Vascanox (beet extract), CoQNol 200, and MitoQ. The Vascanox and Arterosil successfully improved my large artery elasticity so we have increased the dose to 2 tabs/day of each to hopefully get the small arteries back into the normal range. I did see improvement on 1 tab/day so hopefully, my next test will show me back in the healthy range on both large and small arterial elasticity.
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