I don't think that Ingebrigtsen is doing PED's. Some may disagree with me, but, we have to look at his overall situation... He trains a lot (like possibly more than any other 1500m guy in the world right now) and he has been progressing slightly each year. Most likely the result of a good training system and his natural talent. He seems to be quite motivated to win any race that he steps foot in. Honestly, after watching his interviews, I doubt that he is the type of guy that would be okay with using drugs to help win races. I think that would take away some of his confidence and mentality about him being the best. I think that he believes that he is the best due to his great performances, which he has achieved after working hard continuously over the years.
But let's have it your way,it converts to about 3:40.5 so even if we go with your Conversion reasoning,then he still improved 9 seconds in 1 year,then half a second in 3 years when he is now being tested? That all correct?
But let's have it your way,it converts to about 3:40.5 so even if we go with your Conversion reasoning,then he still improved 9 seconds in 1 year,then half a second in 3 years when he is now being tested? That all correct?
No. 1) it hasn’t been 3 years and 2) he HAS IMPROVED substantially in other event areas.
This thread was about a 1500m runner,and I compared his 1500 times which have only improved half a second in 2 years and 7 months after a 9 second improvement in 8 months.
Only difference is the AIU were very suspicious of him as he only had 1 test in all his NCAA career,so started testing him.
But let's have it your way,it converts to about 3:40.5 so even if we go with your Conversion reasoning,then he still improved 9 seconds in 1 year,then half a second in 3 years when he is now being tested? That all correct?
9 secs in one year? Katir improved 8 secs. So, incidentally, did Nordas.
Exactly my point,yet on here Hocker is treated like an untouchable god,but his improvements where pretty much the same as those 2 and he stopped improving once he started getting tested,oh sorry he improved by half a second in nearly 3 years.
I like your post -things are complicated. But just to complicate things even further: Nordås did in fact “try to run the 3000m seriously before 2023” (with success) - he was number 5 behind Jakob, Mechaal and Katir in Euros indoor 2021…
And a fun fact to your remark about Gjert not spotting the 1500m for Nordås: Gjert says in an interview that it was Jakob that proposed Nordås going for the 1500m..!
Yes he ran it a bit more finally and it was his best event. He fashioned himself into a decent 5k guy, but again there are no other athletes who discover untapped talent at the 1500 moving down(!) after several cycles in global races. Doesn’t happen, it is a peculiar thing. This is even the case for East African/Japanese athletes who you’d suspect would be pigeonholed into distance events. If you can find another example I’m all ears. Nordas is highly anomalous, and from his LetsRun interview he himself struggles to reconcile his own perceived lack of talent/speed with finishing high up in a race that demands talent/speed.
Exactly my point,yet on here Hocker is treated like an untouchable god,but his improvements where pretty much the same as those 2 and he stopped improving once he started getting tested,oh sorry he improved by half a second in nearly 3 years.
But everyone knows that with Americans the system isn't working (broken - like with innocent Shelby H) if athletes get caught and ANY excuse is honest, but for non-Americans who get caught (kenyans etc.) the system works just fine and there is NO excuse.
LR logic should be applied to progression - anyone improving more than 5sec per year in 1500/mile is deemed to be doping, and should be banned because LR experts say they are guilty since of course the AIU and WADA can't do their jobs effectively (according to experts like Armstronglivs, Astro, etc) given that at least 50% of all top level athletes are doping. Really should just draw a line in the sand, and anyone who crosses it (but it is fluid since there will never be any agreement on what that is - except they they improved a lot) is banned, end of story. The will of the people will prevail.
Exactly my point,yet on here Hocker is treated like an untouchable god,but his improvements where pretty much the same as those 2 and he stopped improving once he started getting tested,oh sorry he improved by half a second in nearly 3 years.
Did you expect him to improve another 11 seconds again and shatter the WR by running a 3:20? Improvement isn't linear dumb@ss. Ever heard of this thing called diminishing returns?
Nordas did not switch coaches. He’s been coached by Gjert for years. Altitude being introduced into his training and the removal of the brothers from the group is what changed if you are looking for something.
Agree. But Nordås himself mentioned the switch to right effort in the work outs, much better resting conditions (not hard working in the barn / staying or walking all day in a shop), but above all the psychological factor of focusing on the 1500m (freed from all the temperature problems he has suffered in 5/10000m in the champs)…
That’s actually a very underrated point you’ve brought up regarding temperatures in the longer distances and how it has an impact. Narve’s clearly made a massive jump in the 1500m and had a phenomenal bronze medal run in Budapest, and while he has improved in the 5000m as well, the weather still has an impact on him in a race that long and that quick which was evident in the WC 5000m final last year when he was absolutely nowhere when the kicking started.
Yes he ran it a bit more finally and it was his best event. He fashioned himself into a decent 5k guy, but again there are no other athletes who discover untapped talent at the 1500 moving down(!) after several cycles in global races. Doesn’t happen, it is a peculiar thing. This is even the case for East African/Japanese athletes who you’d suspect would be pigeonholed into distance events. If you can find another example I’m all ears. Nordas is highly anomalous, and from his LetsRun interview he himself struggles to reconcile his own perceived lack of talent/speed with finishing high up in a race that demands talent/speed.
I’m cool with you using the word “anomalous” here, but I’m also quite certain this word could apply to other athletes as well, f.ex Beamish’s and Kincaid’s (as well as Nordås’) kick ability even in an all out race…
You miss a central point when it comes to Nordås: We don’t know how good he really is in the other events apart from the 1500m. And, as you -if I am being fair-said: There seems to be a psychological issue here… But what’s really missing is this: Nordås’ success in stepping down is a relative one. -If he had been as good in the other events we would only called him a good runner, and not one who stepped down. And the thing is that Nordås’ bad running history originates from temperature problems in the 5/10000m in champs year after year (according to himself -he is one of the many who tackle 30+ degrees Celsius extremely bad). Without these problems we wouldn’t even register a stepping down problematic -he would have been an overall good runner (not only one who only can be stellar in a hot weather 1500m, where temperatures don’t matter that much). And he would also avoided a bad circle here (psychologically)…
What do you think happens to the respiratory system when you strain to breathe for years on end in freezing temperatures? (Norway is a cold place, just so you know) You damage it, and it starts to constrict, making it harder to breathe. Somehow people like you think its a big “gotcha” moment when you cite these statistics without any logic to decipher them.
Progression is a b tch (to understand). And so is (lack of detailed) information.
Just look at Jakob I. -He had his huge, nearly 10 sec 1500m progression in 2018, but already in the spring 2019 it seemed to stop. -I remember Gjert told so in an interview (they had to do some significant changes in the training). And Jakob confirmed the problem by running a crappy mile; 3.51 low). So what was happening -a 18 years old plateauing despite never having trained too hard..? So was it doping (for the first time) that got him on the (progression) track again..?
In 2020 Jakob did 3.28 after tawing the chase pack behind Cheruiyot. OK -expected progression. And then Oly 2021: 3.28.32 -fair enough; he wasn’t all out, but he had Cheruiyot as pacer. 2022: Indoors WR: 3.30.60 -OK, but clearly his weakest WR. The rest of the season: bad (maybe except of his WC 5000m win) - he ran a crappy 3.46 mile and a crappy 3.29.02 in good conditions…My thoughts: Well, he himself talks about having peaked -maybe this is what he can deliver in the 15, but with expected progress in the 5. Maybe he can be good in the half marathon sometime…
In Des 2022 Jakob got sick -for a long time. And he had numerous serious injuries. BANG 2023: 3.27.14 in a race that went wrong. WR (2 mile). Sick again. WR. + 3.43 mile with jet lag and short pacing…
My point with this rant? -We don’t understand progress! Especially without sufficient information (that we still don’t have about Jakob’s injuries 2021/2022 ++). We tend to fill in lack of information / lack of understanding the uneven pace progression so naturally can have with the easy doping explanation….
This post was edited 4 minutes after it was posted.
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