It doesn't matter if 5 in the USA have the world standard, because if Tuohy or Valby don't have the standard but 1 of them places third, it shakes everything up.
Why? In that scenario, the next order of finish that actually has a qualification time gets the 3rd spot.
Because that qualifier time is so important to the outcome, will we see more paced 5k opportunities this spring, particularly going off at the ‘magical’ banked indoor tracks in Boston, before indoor season comes to a close?
It doesn't matter if 5 in the USA have the world standard, because if Tuohy or Valby don't have the standard but 1 of them places third, it shakes everything up.
Why? In that scenario, the next order of finish that actually has a qualification time gets the 3rd spot.
Because that qualifier time is so important to the outcome, will we see more paced 5k opportunities this spring, particularly going off at the ‘magical’ banked indoor tracks in Boston, before indoor season comes to a close?
WRONG! You are WRONG. This happened in the women's 10k JUST THIS PAST YEAR. Cranny, Monson, and Schweizer were the only 3 with the standard. Natosha Rogers placed 3rd, Schweizer was 6th. Rogers qualified via World Ranking, NOT Schweizer.
The fact that so few people understand this qualifying process is PROOF that the world ranking qualifying process is a failure.
Tuohy is ranked #35, Valby is only ranked #61. Tuohy got 1294 points for her 3k at Millrose (90 of them were a bonus due to her place). To compare, Valby's 14:56 5k only gets her 1207 (12 come from place).
This shows a clear flaw in the ranking process. 3k's are ranked too heavily when it's not even the event you'd even be competing in at the Olympics. Valby closed her 5k in 8:54 AFTER hitting 2k in 6:01, and she closed in 2:17. She was clearly in 8:35 fitness or faster.
Additionally, the place bonuses are not proportional. The 90 points for Tuohy's 3rd at Millrose makes her 8:35 equal points wise (1294) to an outdoor 3k of 8:06.00, faster than the world record.
I hate to throw out a "would've, could've, should've" opinion, but if Valby were able to log in decent weekly mileage along with quality workouts without injury she would DESTROY Tuohy. I know this isn't the case and fully appreciate how talented Tuohy is, but you have to take this into consideration to appreciate what Valby has accomplished. I'd love to see these two go at it at the pro level, unfortunately I don't think Valby will improve too much unless she can increase her mileage workload and interval intensity.
Why? In that scenario, the next order of finish that actually has a qualification time gets the 3rd spot.
Because that qualifier time is so important to the outcome, will we see more paced 5k opportunities this spring, particularly going off at the ‘magical’ banked indoor tracks in Boston, before indoor season comes to a close?
WRONG! You are WRONG. This happened in the women's 10k JUST THIS PAST YEAR. Cranny, Monson, and Schweizer were the only 3 with the standard. Natosha Rogers placed 3rd, Schweizer was 6th. Rogers qualified via World Ranking, NOT Schweizer.
The fact that so few people understand this qualifying process is PROOF that the world ranking qualifying process is a failure.
Believe me, I want clarification. The reason the 10k was TOTALLY different from what can happen in the 5k is because of the additional layer of qualification from XCountry that was ONLY added to the 10k distance. Understand? That scenario is NOT applicable to the 5k.
WRONG! You are WRONG. This happened in the women's 10k JUST THIS PAST YEAR. Cranny, Monson, and Schweizer were the only 3 with the standard. Natosha Rogers placed 3rd, Schweizer was 6th. Rogers qualified via World Ranking, NOT Schweizer.
The fact that so few people understand this qualifying process is PROOF that the world ranking qualifying process is a failure.
Believe me, I want clarification. The reason the 10k was TOTALLY different from what can happen in the 5k is because of the additional layer of qualification from XCountry that was ONLY added to the 10k distance. Understand? That scenario is NOT applicable to the 5k.
Read this again; you are the one that originally wrote it:
“After auto qualifiers, all remaining spots will be filled based solely on world ranking in exactly that order (with a limit of 3 per country).”
Thus, for the 5k distance, the ones with the time qualification standard, trump any world ranking. If I’m wrong about this, show me the clarification in the rule book.
Tuohy is ranked #35, Valby is only ranked #61. Tuohy got 1294 points for her 3k at Millrose (90 of them were a bonus due to her place). To compare, Valby's 14:56 5k only gets her 1207 (12 come from place).
This shows a clear flaw in the ranking process. 3k's are ranked too heavily when it's not even the event you'd even be competing in at the Olympics. Valby closed her 5k in 8:54 AFTER hitting 2k in 6:01, and she closed in 2:17. She was clearly in 8:35 fitness or faster.
Additionally, the place bonuses are not proportional. The 90 points for Tuohy's 3rd at Millrose makes her 8:35 equal points wise (1294) to an outdoor 3k of 8:06.00, faster than the world record.
I hate to throw out a "would've, could've, should've" opinion, but if Valby were able to log in decent weekly mileage along with quality workouts without injury she would DESTROY Tuohy. I know this isn't the case and fully appreciate how talented Tuohy is, but you have to take this into consideration to appreciate what Valby has accomplished. I'd love to see these two go at it at the pro level, unfortunately I don't think Valby will improve too much unless she can increase her mileage workload and interval intensity.
(1) Valby can continue to improve just by changing nothing with her training, and just staying consistent with it, uninterrupted by injury.
(2)With further progression, she can then modulate it by increasing time/distance, just as one does with a Jack Daniels program as their VDOT improves.
(3) She can get further physiological improvement by living/training at altitude.
Spot on. The Tuohy crowd seems to think that she has to switch to running in order to improve. She became the fastest woman in history but they want her to chnage to the training that slower women utilized. It stands to reason that her improvement will be similar to that of her predecessors like Monson and Valby is starting at a much higher level which means her ceiking is much higher.
I hate to throw out a "would've, could've, should've" opinion, but if Valby were able to log in decent weekly mileage along with quality workouts without injury she would DESTROY Tuohy. I know this isn't the case and fully appreciate how talented Tuohy is, but you have to take this into consideration to appreciate what Valby has accomplished. I'd love to see these two go at it at the pro level, unfortunately I don't think Valby will improve too much unless she can increase her mileage workload and interval intensity.
Idk Valby was running 65 mpw until she broke her foot so she has not always been low miles. Maybe she can get the volune back up.
Since she is doing a decent volume of workout miles already, how much will she really benefit by converting her easy days from 2 hours on the arc trainer and swimming? If she increases her workout volume she will get faster... but so does everyone. Proponents of her cross training routine say she is getting in more aerobic work than other runners... (CJ albertson said this recently).
If she races longer distances than 6k cross country races, it stands to reason the total distance per week running would increase. However, the actual % of time spent running in the total training volume could even stay the same; unless training for the marathon, which would require dramatic increase in running volume.
Idk Valby was running 65 mpw until she broke her foot so she has not always been low miles. Maybe she can get the volune back up.
Since she is doing a decent volume of workout miles already, how much will she really benefit by converting her easy days from 2 hours on the arc trainer and swimming? If she increases her workout volume she will get faster... but so does everyone. Proponents of her cross training routine say she is getting in more aerobic work than other runners... (CJ albertson said this recently).
If she races longer distances than 6k cross country races, it stands to reason the total distance per week running would increase. However, the actual % of time spent running in the total training volume could even stay the same; unless training for the marathon, which would require dramatic increase in running volume.
It’s the difference in getting the body capable of withstanding the ground loading, and muscles specifically firing, for an event lasting over two hours versus one lasting less than 16 minutes.
If she races longer distances than 6k cross country races, it stands to reason the total distance per week running would increase. However, the actual % of time spent running in the total training volume could even stay the same; unless training for the marathon, which would require dramatic increase in running volume.
It’s the difference in getting the body capable of withstanding the ground loading, and muscles specifically firing, for an event lasting over two hours versus one lasting less than 16 minutes.
This is one reason she might enjoy the steeple, since it’s over well under 10 minutes. It’s that last 1k of the event, when the body is lactic, when those jumps can sneak up on the athlete. But if she practices it, she could learn to manage it.
The tracks that Valby runs on are always faster, and are going to be faster and faster from now on. Some of her competition apparently keeps running on slower tracks, or else is sick, even when they're in the same race.
That will continue so she will be just fine. Tuohy will always be sick or have an off day at large meets and Valby will always run on the fastest track in the world.
Believe me, I want clarification. The reason the 10k was TOTALLY different from what can happen in the 5k is because of the additional layer of qualification from XCountry that was ONLY added to the 10k distance. Understand? That scenario is NOT applicable to the 5k.
Read this again; you are the one that originally wrote it:
“After auto qualifiers, all remaining spots will be filled based solely on world ranking in exactly that order (with a limit of 3 per country).”
Thus, for the 5k distance, the ones with the time qualification standard, trump any world ranking. If I’m wrong about this, show me the clarification in the rule book.
The 10k was slightly different because of the XC spots but that did not effect the Rogers situation this time and the process used is the exact process that USA will use in 2024.
The World Athletics goes by Auto and then world rank. However individual nations have their own selection process to determine their team. the USA is never going to send anyone outside of the top 3, even if that person has the auto, unless someone in the top 3 cannot get in via the auto or world ranking.
This is one reason she might enjoy the steeple, since it’s over well under 10 minutes. It’s that last 1k of the event, when the body is lactic, when those jumps can sneak up on the athlete. But if she practices it, she could learn to manage it.
For Parker Valby:
“I’ve talked to a few really good steeplers about this, I was saying ‘I’m really struggling at the end of the race, why is this? I do hurdle practice, I got a great technique, I’m strong in the hips, I’m strong in the core’, but it was that last kilometre. You can’t replicate the feeling unless you’re extremely fatigued and you’re trying to jump.
“Add hurdles at the end of a session when you’ve done a lactic workout, when you’ve done all this work and you’ve absolutely killed yourself. Your coach is like ‘alright, 2k over the hurdles!’. You’ve got to be able to mimic that horrible, horrible feeling when your legs are heavy, you can barely jump, but you have to keep going.
“I think that would be the most important thing, teaching yourself how to get over them when you’re about to hit a wall. Anyone can run 2k, it’s that last kilometre that really kills you.”
“It’s hard to get yourself that fatigued in practice [and recreate] what that last kilometre is going to feel like. It is something that you have got to do over and over again.
“That’s why I think racing is the best way, because you can’t mimic that feeling. You can’t simulate how you’re going to close that race unless you do it.”
This is one reason she might enjoy the steeple, since it’s over well under 10 minutes. It’s that last 1k of the event, when the body is lactic, when those jumps can sneak up on the athlete. But if she practices it, she could learn to manage it.
For Parker Valby:
“I’ve talked to a few really good steeplers about this, I was saying ‘I’m really struggling at the end of the race, why is this? I do hurdle practice, I got a great technique, I’m strong in the hips, I’m strong in the core’, but it was that last kilometre. You can’t replicate the feeling unless you’re extremely fatigued and you’re trying to jump.
“Add hurdles at the end of a session when you’ve done a lactic workout, when you’ve done all this work and you’ve absolutely killed yourself. Your coach is like ‘alright, 2k over the hurdles!’. You’ve got to be able to mimic that horrible, horrible feeling when your legs are heavy, you can barely jump, but you have to keep going.
“I think that would be the most important thing, teaching yourself how to get over them when you’re about to hit a wall. Anyone can run 2k, it’s that last kilometre that really kills you.”
“It’s hard to get yourself that fatigued in practice [and recreate] what that last kilometre is going to feel like. It is something that you have got to do over and over again.
“That’s why I think racing is the best way, because you can’t mimic that feeling. You can’t simulate how you’re going to close that race unless you do it.”
I don't. The newly resurfaced BU track is artificially fast. Three runners broke the prior ncaa 5000m record in a single meet.
"artificially fast"? Are you saying that any "newly resurfaced track" is "artificially fast"? By your definition and logic (or lack thereof), you're saying the any results performed on this track are not real? or not legitimate?
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