Eery: Narve Nordas' Breakout 2023 Season Strikingly Similar to...Shelby Houlihan's 2018 Season

it is double threshold bro wrote:

it is double threshold bro wrote:

What is more telling is what Nordas can run at the end of a 3:30 race, which he just showed us.

Sorry to be glib, but he is repeatedly trying to say his open 800m is probably not much faster; that instead, he is just slowing down less, at the end of the race, than the other 1500m ‘faster’ guys.

THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:

it is double threshold bro wrote:

Curious whether you similarly raved and made a somewhat accusatory thread on Grant Fischer, when he similarly increased his VDOT (measured in the 5k distance) from the age of 24 to 25? If not, why not?

Fisher’s breakthrough was in his second year as a pro where he trained much harder/more thoroughly. In college, he was undertrained running only 65-70mpw as a 5k runner. He finished 5th in the 10K in Tokyo. Sure he set big PBs in 2022, but to finish that high up we all know he was in monster shape. It’s a more explicable jump.

it is double threshold bro wrote:

THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:

Fisher’s breakthrough was in his second year as a pro where he trained much harder/more thoroughly. In college, he was undertrained running only 65-70mpw as a 5k runner. He finished 5th in the 10K in Tokyo. Sure he set big PBs in 2022, but to finish that high up we all know he was in monster shape. It’s a more explicable jump.

weak-sauce take bro…he had the whole of his NCAA career prior at Stanford U, whereas, Nordas didn’t get full attention from his coach prior, in a little Nordic town.

THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:

it is double threshold bro wrote:

Curious whether you similarly raved and made a somewhat accusatory thread on Grant Fischer, when he similarly increased his VDOT (measured in the 5k distance) from the age of 24 to 25? If not, why not?

Fisher’s breakthrough was in his second year as a pro where he trained much harder/more thoroughly. In college, he was undertrained running only 65-70mpw as a 5k runner. He finished 5th in the 10K in Tokyo. Sure he set big PBs in 2022, but to finish that high up we all know he was in monster shape. It’s a more explicable jump.

it is double threshold bro wrote:

it is double threshold bro wrote:

weak-sauce take bro…he had the whole of his NCAA career prior at Stanford U, whereas, Nordas didn’t get full attention from his coach prior, in a little Nordic town.

The bigger reason it is a super-weak take is because in your opening post, you neglected to mention that Houlihan’s jump from 4:03 to 3:57 took two years time, rather than one year. So just based on that progression, Fisher’s progression was way more dramatic. You also overlooked Fischer was in the same training club as Houlihan.

Loppas wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

At 18? Not a chance.

But you think Jakob doped at 18?

it is double threshold bro wrote:

You apparently believe and repeat the sport is dirty and corrupt to the core, and drugs are the answer as to how one makes a worlds final. So what is it that separates those on the podium from the others in the race?

KaareV wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

It is, how does an athlete you claim is "clean" finish faster in the 1500 than naturally faster runners, some of whom will likely be doped?

Funny again. Sure a an athlete can finish faster than naturally faster runners in a hard race. All things equal. Even when the faster runner is doped. A doped naturally faster runner with a PB 3:33 and a runner who is not doped PB 3:31. You fail all the time with your special kind of abstract reasoning. BTW your opinion is that all runner a bit under 3:30 are doped. So you do not have to argue. Though, you have never ever made solid arguments for your claim. Why not all sub 3:31 or sub 3:29???

it is double threshold bro wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

If he was working this hard for ten years then how is it that virtually all his improvement came in the last year, as shown by his 8 second jump in his best 1500 time - from mediocre to world-beating?

If you read the interview, per his answers;

(1) he previously was not concentrating on the 1500m;

(2) it was a 6+ second jump, rather than 8 seconds, and it probably less than that because he felt he was likely in 3:22-3:23 shape last year, but didn’t display that fitness in a race.

Armstronglivs wrote:

Loppas wrote:

But you think Jakob doped at 18?

Yes.

Armstronglivs wrote:

it is double threshold bro wrote:

If you read the interview, per his answers;

(1) he previously was not concentrating on the 1500m;

(2) it was a 6+ second jump, rather than 8 seconds, and it probably less than that because he felt he was likely in 3:22-3:23 shape last year, but didn’t display that fitness in a race.

He wasn't "concentrating" on the 1500, but nor was he running world-class times in the longer distances. He was mediocre.

What he says he "felt" he could run is irrelevant. He ran no faster than 3.36. A year later he's running 3.29, a time fast enough to put him amongst the very best in the world. You would still probably find excuses for him if he was now running 3.27-26.

Armstronglivs wrote:

Loppas wrote:

But you think Jakob doped at 18?

Yes.

WU20runner wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

Yes.

Are you saying Laros is clearly doping or he clearly isn’t ?

I just want to know your opinion.

admit it wrote:

Oh please. You are doing the same thing everyone else here does which is defending the athletes you like and casting suspicion on the ones you don’t. Not a fan of Nordas and Farah: doping. Fan of Ahmed and Katir: easily explicable jump in fitness. The reality is all four made insane jumps but you’re only willing to make excuses for the latter.

There is nothing wrong with calling out Nordas’ progression and suspecting him of doping, but you need to own your bias here.

THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:

admit it wrote:

Oh please. You are doing the same thing everyone else here does which is defending the athletes you like and casting suspicion on the ones you don’t. Not a fan of Nordas and Farah: doping. Fan of Ahmed and Katir: easily explicable jump in fitness. The reality is all four made insane jumps but you’re only willing to make excuses for the latter.

There is nothing wrong with calling out Nordas’ progression and suspecting him of doping, but you need to own your bias here.

Believe what you want. Sure Fisher might be doping but he changed systems, mileage and more. He did not merely get more attention from his coach.

it is double threshold bro wrote:

it is double threshold bro wrote:

weak-sauce take bro…he had the whole of his NCAA career prior at Stanford U, whereas, Nordas didn’t get full attention from his coach prior, in a little Nordic town.

The bigger reason it is a super-weak take is because in your opening post, you neglected to mention that Houlihan’s jump from 4:03 to 3:57 took two years time, rather than one year. So just based on that progression, Fisher’s progression was way more dramatic. You also overlooked Fischer was in the same training club as Houlihan.

THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:

it is double threshold bro wrote:

The bigger reason it is a super-weak take is because in your opening post, you neglected to mention that Houlihan’s jump from 4:03 to 3:57 took two years time, rather than one year. So just based on that progression, Fisher’s progression was way more dramatic. You also overlooked Fischer was in the same training club as Houlihan.

Like Nordas she settled at a level for 2 years. Both jumped a huge level suddenly at age 24-25 out of literal nowhere without much changing.