Amazing thread. Nothing brings the letsrun soyboys together like longing for a DQ after a white Euro athlete makes a minor inconsequential infraction. Reminds me of those threads from a couple years ago critiquing Femke's technique. Same nonsense. Same soyboys.
He wobbled on a hurdle. Refs didn't consider it a foul. The rest of the world has moved on.
Rules are rules man. Warholm should have been DQed but world athletics wants him in for ratings. Hope Rai hooks every hurdle in the final since apparently it’s allowed now.
So unfair smh. If Warholm wins i will be requesting a refund on my Rai Benjamin +400 to win from fanduel.
Apparently US reviewed the official footage and descided not to place a protest.
I've seen KW do this in other races (and other hurdlers) I just figured it's kind of like a carry in the NBA. It doesn't get called so everyone does it, and since everyone does it it can't get called.
Yeah I don't know why people are making a fuss of this. He does it every race or at least every race I've seen.
The problem begins with the Norwegian language. There is no concept of "two" in Norwegian. They count 1 en, 3 tre , 4 fire, 5 fem and so on to 11 eleve. This means they use base10 arithmetic without a "two". Warholm counts hurdles as he runs towards them. The second hurdle is viewed by Norwegians as a conceptual difficulty - a puzzlement.
Amazing thread. Nothing brings the letsrun soyboys together like longing for a DQ after a white Euro athlete makes a minor inconsequential infraction. Reminds me of those threads from a couple years ago critiquing Femke's technique. Same nonsense. Same soyboys.
He wobbled on a hurdle. Refs didn't consider it a foul. The rest of the world has moved on.
True. But they’ll defend any foul or mistake bu a non-whitw to the death.
Control YT videos one frame at a time with the comma key (forward 1 frame) and period keys (back one frame.)
Observe also the shadows on the hurdle's left supporting leg, yet no shadows on the top crossboard. In my professional opinion, Mr. Warholm's left foot went around and below the top of the hurdle.
You can't tell when his foot crosses the plane from this vantage point. It's too ambiguous, even if you knew where the camera was. The long lens gives you no perspective. You can't tell whether his foot is closer or farther from the camera relative to the hurdle.
You can't tell from the shadows either. The location of the shadows depends on where all the lights were and how bright.
If this was the only evidence, it wouldn't be enough to DQ him.
That being said, from the videos and stills, it looks like Warholm's left lead leg is slightly below the horizontal plane of the top of the hurdle as he brings it up. His foot then continues upward for some distance above the horizontal plane. In other words, the lead leg "appears" to clear more than 36 inches (if not at the hurdle, then immediately thereafter), rather than a case of his lead leg remaining below the horizontal plane. This would seem to be the intent of the rule to ensure that the hurdle height is actually cleared. So, no advantage gained, IMHO.
Also, having your left lead leg slide around below the hurdle would tend to cause the lead leg to land on the inside lane line in addition to the likely outcome of having your trailing leg slam into the hurdle on the way over. (And for a left lead leg High Hurdler, this situation could only occur running in lane one).
This post was edited 8 minutes after it was posted.
That being said, from the videos and stills, it looks like Warholm's left lead leg is slightly below the horizontal plane of the top of the hurdle as he brings it up. His foot then continues upward for some distance above the horizontal plane. In other words, the lead leg "appears" to clear more than 36 inches (if not at the hurdle, then immediately thereafter), rather than a case of his lead leg remaining below the horizontal plane. This would seem to be the intent of the rule to ensure that the hurdle height is actually cleared. So, no advantage gained, IMHO.
Also, having your left lead leg slide around below the hurdle would tend to cause the lead leg to land on the inside lane line in addition to the likely outcome of having your trailing leg slam into the hurdle on the way over. (And for a left lead leg High Hurdler, this situation could only occur running in lane one).
There is not slightly about it. Half of his leading foot is BELOW the plane of the top of the hurdle as he pass by it. You are implying that if the bottom of the foot is above the plane of the top of the hurdle after passing the vertical plane of the hurdle he is meets the requirements.
Your last claim isn't correct, "And for a left lead leg High Hurdler, this situation could only occur running in lane one". The reason is that the hurdles are staggered, so a lane one situation occurs in every lane expect on the final straightaway. On the last few hurdles of the final turn the Warholm trick would be hard to pull off, but there is ample space for a runner who screws up their steps to pull a Warholm.
400m H 1st hurdle Start 200m 400m H 3rd hurdle 400m H 6th hurdle 400m H 6th hurdle 400m H 7th hurdle 400m H 8th hurdle 400m H 9th hurdle 400m H 10th hurdle Take-over zone…
That being said, from the videos and stills, it looks like Warholm's left lead leg is slightly below the horizontal plane of the top of the hurdle as he brings it up. His foot then continues upward for some distance above the horizontal plane. In other words, the lead leg "appears" to clear more than 36 inches (if not at the hurdle, then immediately thereafter), rather than a case of his lead leg remaining below the horizontal plane. This would seem to be the intent of the rule to ensure that the hurdle height is actually cleared. So, no advantage gained, IMHO.
Also, having your left lead leg slide around below the hurdle would tend to cause the lead leg to land on the inside lane line in addition to the likely outcome of having your trailing leg slam into the hurdle on the way over. (And for a left lead leg High Hurdler, this situation could only occur running in lane one).
There is not slightly about it. Half of his leading foot is BELOW the plane of the top of the hurdle as he pass by it. You are implying that if the bottom of the foot is above the plane of the top of the hurdle after passing the vertical plane of the hurdle he is meets the requirements.
Your last claim isn't correct, "And for a left lead leg High Hurdler, this situation could only occur running in lane one". The reason is that the hurdles are staggered, so a lane one situation occurs in every lane expect on the final straightaway. On the last few hurdles of the final turn the Warholm trick would be hard to pull off, but there is ample space for a runner who screws up their steps to pull a Warholm.
* According to the rule, if the foot or leg, at the instant of clearance, is beside the hurdle (on either side) below the horizontal plane of the top of the hurdle, it is a violation. So, yes, if the lead left foot is just to the left and just partially below the top of the hurdle, it would be violation. My point was that Warholm's left foot appears to rise to a point over 36 inches above the ground as he extends his left leg before bringing it back down. Or to state it another way, had the hurdle been a few more inches further down the track, he could have gotten his lead leg up and over. Again, it appears that his lead leg did rise higher than hurdle height. Not the same thing as "dipping" either leg below the hurdle height for the entire hurdle motion and gaining an advantage.
* Last comment was that this situation could also arise for 110/100m Hurdlers on the straight away where a left lead leg hurdler in lane 1 (or a right lead leg hurdler in lane 8/9) could have the same issues. (And, yes, the 400m Hurdles are run on the curve for all lanes.)
Can we please have a respectful discussion environment?
This is from NRK (translated by Google):
Finnish Antti Pihlakoski was part of the jury on Monday.He explains the course of events as follows: - Someone saw that there might be a problem with Warholm's hedge pass. The US requested it. They came to see the official video. The official video was satisfactory for the US, so they did not file a protest, he says to NRK.
[....]
He explains that the angle of the images shown on the TV broadcast was not good enough to give a correct answer. - The angle is not the right one. You have to see it either from the front or from above. When you have those videos, you see that there are moments where it looks like it's not a right way to go over the hedge, but it was a right pass, he says.
I've seen KW do this in other races (and other hurdlers) I just figured it's kind of like a carry in the NBA. It doesn't get called so everyone does it, and since everyone does it it can't get called.
Yeah I don't know why people are making a fuss of this. He does it every race or at least every race I've seen.
I think there should be new rules in track and field for those kind of situations. DQ Warholm wouldn't make much sens as it didn't help him qualify at all. But still he broke the rule so he should get a penalty.
0,1 or 0,2 sec penalty seems fair.
Ref are often in a tough situation where they can only choose between DQ or do nothing and both seem wrong.
I remember in 2014 when Mekhissi Benabbad was disqualified after winning the 3000sc European champ gold for taking off his tee shirt in the last 100. It had nothing to do with his performance. The gold was 100% deserved. Fine him if you want but doesn't make sens to DQ him.
You can't tell when his foot breaks the plane of the hurdle from these pictures either. His foot could easily be 20 cm behind the hurdle in the first image and it would look the same from that vantage point as if it was just touching.
None of these images show what you need to know to DQ him. They're all taken at an oblique angle. You at least need an image taken from close to the plane of the hurdle, preferably at the height of the hurdle looking straight across, which is the only position that will always give you a conclusive answer.
It certainly seems like his left foot goes to the left of the hurdles on the turns but on the straights he goes over the hurdle with the lead leg, if you stop frame it over each hurdle it looks that way, but again it is hard to tell 100% with these camera angles
It certainly seems like his left foot goes to the left of the hurdles on the turns but on the straights he goes over the hurdle with the lead leg, if you stop frame it over each hurdle it looks that way, but again it is hard to tell 100% with these camera angles
It certainly seems like his left foot goes to the left of the hurdles on the turns but on the straights he goes over the hurdle with the lead leg, if you stop frame it over each hurdle it looks that way, but again it is hard to tell 100% with these camera angles
He runs very tight to the inside of his lane on the turns and yes it sure looks like his foot comes up wide. Even hurdle 8 today. But how high and where is unclear.
I like him. He's a great champion. He didn't get an advantage and there was no reason to disqualify him. It just wasn't that big of an issue. His gold medal race was sub 47 and he beat some excellent runners.
