I'm not naive but I agree that we cannot be sure that the test is 100% reliable at this point.
I’m definitely NOT a doping apologist, but if you are suspending somebody, put the data out there and make the case. It can still be challenged, appealed per the required process. It’s like a criminal indictment. Once the indictment is made, it becomes public and the prosecutors lay out their side of the case at least for all to see.
Yeah it will eventually get out there. The final document like we saw for Shelby, Kiprop, McNeal et al. does satisfy me. But until then, there're varying levels of credence that you can give to the accused athlete's defense. Kiprop's and Shelby's were nonsensical, but I'd say this one and Bol's makes me want to see more data. Which would make sense considering the "failed" part of the ABP seem to date back to 2018, and the athlete doesn't have a history of AAFs, missed tests, all while being an athlete that has been in the system for a while.
This post was edited 29 seconds after it was posted.
I'm not naive but I agree that we cannot be sure that the test is 100% reliable at this point.
I’m definitely NOT a doping apologist, but if you are suspending somebody, put the data out there and make the case. It can still be challenged, appealed per the required process. It’s like a criminal indictment. Once the indictment is made, it becomes public and the prosecutors lay out their side of the case at least for all to see.
I went to Iten last year in May, and passed by the St Patrick's school gates every day. I became friends with the guards there (at the gates) and the docile guard dogs (unlike aggressive guard dogs in the West). Everyone told me Rhonex was the most humble athlete they ever met. The shopkeepers (opposite the school gates) told me Rhonex K. used to buy treats and snacks for the local kids. Other shopkeepers told me they had no idea that Rhonex K. was a world class athlete, because Rhonex NEVER boasted about his monster accomplishments. Doped or not, the kid is a good kid. Go to Iten and see for yourself. Just saying. People might be jumping to erroneous conclusions. Sad times. On the fence.
I'm not naive but I agree that we cannot be sure that the test is 100% reliable at this point.
Athlete Biological Passport is not a "test" per se but a full blood panel screen. It's looking at things like hematocrit and hemoglobin numbers outside the norm for a specific athlete in reference to themselves via past ABP screenings. This is not the same as a positive for EPO or Nandrolone which is a test that proves the presence of the drug in the system. I do not doubt he could be doping, but if you look at this case objectively without prejudice, given the info provided but more importantly, the info not provided, it does seem that this may not be a cut and dry suspension yet.
I’m definitely NOT a doping apologist, but if you are suspending somebody, put the data out there and make the case. It can still be challenged, appealed per the required process. It’s like a criminal indictment. Once the indictment is made, it becomes public and the prosecutors lay out their side of the case at least for all to see.
I went to Iten last year in May, and passed by the St Patrick's school gates every day. I became friends with the guards there (at the gates) and the docile guard dogs (unlike aggressive guard dogs in the West). Everyone told me Rhonex was the most humble athlete they ever met. The shopkeepers (opposite the school gates) told me Rhonex K. used to buy treats and snacks for the local kids. Other shopkeepers told me they had no idea that Rhonex K. was a world class athlete, because Rhonex NEVER boasted about his monster accomplishments. Doped or not, the kid is a good kid. Go to Iten and see for yourself. Just saying. People might be jumping to erroneous conclusions. Sad times. On the fence.
Lance Armstrong raised millions to fight cancer. What’s your point?
You are an absolute clown. Will go to the most insane lengths to defend these Kenyan dopers. That statement is no different than the BS Shelby was pulling trying to sow doubt about the testing process. Good riddance to these cheaters.
I’m hoping he’s innocent is what I’m saying. And I’m glad his team’s response isn’t the usual laughable nonsense we’re used to. And, yes. I’m biased. I like Rhonex.
If that is truly your position, then you need to stop being so definitive in your defense tactics. I hope beyond hope that Eliud is clean and that we are truly celebrating greatness. I’d be a fool, however, to not even consider that he may be doped out of his mind. There is a fine line between hoping for something and being absolutely naive about a situation. Your constant defense of your fellow countrymen against all reason seems firmly in the latter.
And it is a story by Mariusz Gizynski, a polish 2:11 marathoner, who trained in Kenya regularly, about this good man. Published today on his Facebook and translated by chat gpt:
"Hi is a really bad man." These are the words of the physiotherapist whom the man in the photo was just strangling. It happened in January. Today, the Athletics Integrity Unit announced the suspension of the athlete for prohibited doping💊💉. I had a massage in a building adjacent to the famous St. Patrick's School in Iten. We were leaving calmly when Kipruto, accompanied by two friends, attacked my local physiotherapist. He grabbed him tightly by the throat with both hands. I grabbed his arm and yelled, "Let go!" He released his grip and in a chaotic manner, he said it wasn't my business and that I should leave through the gate. I think he had had a few beers... The other two, more frightened than I was, took a few steps back. They were runners, dressed in sports attire and as thin as the "hero" himself. A security guard intervened and escorted me out through the gate. I took out my phone and told them that I would wait there and if they didn't let go of my colleague, I would call the police. After a brief conversation, it turned out that the issue was about him bringing people to their massage table without bringing his own towel. Childish and absurd, because I had my own large towel, which I showed them. They told him to wash the towel in a basin and only then did they release him. That's when he said those words to me. He added that everyone knows he's doping. He's rich now and thinks he can do whatever he wants. I was devastated. I didn't know then that he was the famous world record holder in the 10 km, a bronze medalist at the World Championships in the 10,000 m. I couldn't sleep peacefully after that, and today will probably be the same... I'll find solace as a runner when Kenya finally gets disqualified. I don't see any other way for things to improve.
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Just look at the posters from the "Bol tests positive" thread. Interesting that we don't see the people who were so sure he was dirty at the time now telling us that they were wrong and we should presume innocence. To be fair, people who cast stones are mostly anons. Very few posts could actually be tied to a person of any real reputation.
Big surprise.https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-01-20/australian-olympian-peter-bol-fails-drug-test/101878094https://twitter.com/pbol800/status/1616312322255130625
Just look at the posters from the "Bol tests positive" thread. Interesting that we don't see the people who were so sure he was dirty at the time now telling us that they were wrong and we should presume innocence. To be fair, people who cast stones are mostly anons. Very few posts could actually be tied to a person of any real reputation.
Lol. The only way to fail an ABP is to be full throttle out of this world. The thresholds are so high as to be almost impossible with blatant doping. There is a reason that all the athletes busted for epo never have an ABP violation.
The stans trying to create doubt in this thread are as sad as they are predictable.
He's guilty. Whether he gets caught is another matter, and he and his team are banking on the utter credulity of this sports fans and the corruption of the whole process. Assuming that these athletes are doping since their teenaged years, that will manipulate the values in a blood passport, creating the false impression of a higher natural threshold. In any event, these athletes and their teams/coaches/agents/doctors work actively to defeat the tests and the BP and engage in doping practices to circumvent it. In cycling Team Sky was expert at it. They all know how to manipulate and game the BP. So an anamolous finding is a massive red flag. It just is not as direct a smoking gun as an outright positive.
Who besides astro assumes that these athletes are doping since their teenage years?
Of course the top guys are all doping lmao. It's not possible to compete with enhanced elites, the PEDs are simple way too effective. It's just a shame he got caught imho. Those talented Kenyan lads also deserve expensive sports doctors like the Americans, Europeans, etc - to get them through the tests.
Hard to make much sense of this, here's what we know for sure :
- 3 experts agreed that his ABP data pointed to clear doping/manipulating, that's pretty damning - he hits the bottle, unusual for a pro athlete and not a good sign that he can resist temptation - he's getting popped because his 2020 values went too low (not training, hitting the bottle) compared to 2018 and 2022. Ok so in 2022 he's got the means to dope and not get popped with a substance in his system. But in 2018 ? Where would he have gotten the funds to set up an advanced doping scheme unbeknownst to his coach (who's seen it all in his career) and management ?
Some people here have written that the ABP cases have always been won by doping authorities, but I seem to remember a couple of cyclists who fought and won such cases, Kreuziger for sure and maybe Pellizotti too...ok so I looked it up and the case against Pellizotti was dropped...until he asked for compensation and then he was found guilty, hehe...
And it is a story by Mariusz Gizynski, a polish 2:11 marathoner, who trained in Kenya regularly, about this good man. Published today on his Facebook and translated by chat gpt:
"Hi is a really bad man." ... I couldn't sleep peacefully after that, and today will probably be the same... I'll find solace as a runner when Kenya finally gets disqualified. I don't see any other way for things to improve.
Utter rubbish and hypocrisy from a guy who appears to frequently train in Kenya and even run some sort of training camp/group? "I clashed with a drunk runner over a massage table so the whole country should be banned from the sport because he's a bad man and proves all Kenyans are doping. Meanwhile, I'll continue to use it as a training base".
Hard to make much sense of this, here's what we know for sure :
- 3 experts agreed that his ABP data pointed to clear doping/manipulating, that's pretty damning - he hits the bottle, unusual for a pro athlete and not a good sign that he can resist temptation - he's getting popped because his 2020 values went too low (not training, hitting the bottle) compared to 2018 and 2022. Ok so in 2022 he's got the means to dope and not get popped with a substance in his system. But in 2018 ? Where would he have gotten the funds to set up an advanced doping scheme unbeknownst to his coach (who's seen it all in his career) and management ?
Some people here have written that the ABP cases have always been won by doping authorities, but I seem to remember a couple of cyclists who fought and won such cases, Kreuziger for sure and maybe Pellizotti too...ok so I looked it up and the case against Pellizotti was dropped...until he asked for compensation and then he was found guilty, hehe...
I'm afraid if he's cleared the consequences will be devastating for the BP system which, as it is, appears to be on shaky ground confidence-wise. If the ABP reading was caused by his change of lifelyste - stopped training and started drinking - then it's not eliable system at all.
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