If you're like a number of us who have tried something similar, you are probably going to notice that, at least initially, your brain still remembers what it felt like, but your legs have trouble doing what your brain remembers. It's an odd neuromuscular disconnect that seems quite different from any diminution in aerobic capacity that may also limit performance.
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Hurdles400m wrote:
Not sure about the 20-year layoff, but the Masters Rankings website all-time 1500m list (no mile list so add 20 seconds) has over 100 M40-44 performances below 4:00 (or approximately 4:20 mile). However, for US rankings from 2019 (prior to Covid) the fastest M40-44 mile was 4:37.02 (age 44).
Bernard Lagat ran a 3:57.91 outdoor mile and a 3:54.91 indoor mile in 2015, when he was 40 years old. He also ran a 13:06.78 5,000m (at the Rio Olympics) and a 27:49.35 10,000m (a PR -- I think it may be the only 10,000 he ever ran) in 2016, at 41; a 1:02:00 HM in 2018, at 43; and a 2:12:10 marathon in 2019, at 44. Does the Masters Rankings website rely on self-submissions or something?
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The guys I know who have run this fast in their 40’s (a) were 4 minute
milers in college, (b) have stayed fit since college, (c) have not gained any weight
since college, (d) are extremely durable, and (e) have continued to train like
they did in college (but with a greater emphasis on endurance to offset the
decline in speed).32 -
Avocado\'s Number wrote:
If you're like a number of us who have tried something similar, you are probably going to notice that, at least initially, your brain still remembers what it felt like, but your legs have trouble doing what your brain remembers. It's an odd neuromuscular disconnect that seems quite different from any diminution in aerobic capacity that may also limit performance.
This brought back a memory of something a tried years ago. I posted on here about it and there was some interest.
I went down to the local track and timed myself for 1 lap. This was done 20 years or so after my best days.
I felt like I was flying, just like the “old days”. Looked down at my watch and I ran it in 85 seconds. Lol. My mind felt fast…my body was in slow motion.
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Albundy wrote:
Avocado\'s Number wrote:
If you're like a number of us who have tried something similar, you are probably going to notice that, at least initially, your brain still remembers what it felt like, but your legs have trouble doing what your brain remembers. It's an odd neuromuscular disconnect that seems quite different from any diminution in aerobic capacity that may also limit performance.
This brought back a memory of something a tried years ago. I posted on here about it and there was some interest.
I went down to the local track and timed myself for 1 lap. This was done 20 years or so after my best days.
I felt like I was flying, just like the “old days”. Looked down at my watch and I ran it in 85 seconds. Lol. My mind felt fast…my body was in slow motion.
That is pretty much every day in your 60s...after you are "in shape". But I enjoy the feeling and I am doing it for myself, so....
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Avocado's Number wrote:
If you're like a number of us who have tried something similar, you are probably going to notice that, at least initially, your brain still remembers what it felt like, but your legs have trouble doing what your brain remembers. It's an odd neuromuscular disconnect that seems quite different from any diminution in aerobic capacity that may also limit performance.
I would like to think my aerobic engine is bigger than when I was in HS, though I'm sure the ceiling dropped.
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Roger meyers wrote:
Shiveman wrote:
Appreciate the feedback, my plan is to join a track club and then hire a coach if I’m able to progress a bit. Based off what I’m reading on this thread, 4:40ish would be a more realistic goal at my age. I will take a look at John’s article this evening.
Don't start quitting goal-wise before you've started.
Go for the 4:20's as a long-term goal 2-4 years and see where the cards fall.
You might end up at 4:55 or 4:15 - who are we to judge?
Thanks for the support!
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XY wrote:
My HS/college PRs were 57/2:08/4:40 (focused more on long road races). I began my comeback age 37 with a decent all around fitness level, just under 5:00. I initially did higher mileage (50-70 mpw) thinking I would be running mainly 5-21K. By age 40 I jumped into some summer all-comers track meets and found I could beat the guys who were ahead of me on the roads. by mid-40s I was 55/2:05/4:19 (for 1500). A key element was having lots of track meets in the form of small college meets in spring and all-comers/masters in summer.
The good news is that you are overall fit and have good running form. The weak link for most MD guys is the lower leg, i.e. achilles, foot, ankles. I suggest a specific strengthening program, kneesovertoesguy has some great youtube videos and basic programs. You need strong tibialis and ankles to withstand the hard turns on the track. The real game-changer here for me is walking and jogging backwards, including up and down hills. I do this in warmuos/cooldowns and along with sprint drills and anytime I need to "restore" my biomechanics. I honestly feel that with this as a 40-something I could have scared 2:02/4:10. I am just glad to have full joint health now in my 60s after blowing up my achilles at 50.
You might look or ask around to see what kind of races are available. When in my best shape I ran 8-10 races 400-3000, minimum.
Also don't neglect quality animal protein. 1g/lb lean mass/day from whole sources, not powders or processed stuff. "protein bars" and such are literally garbage. Meat, eggs, fish, dairy will give you incredible recovery abilities. Just enough carbs to top off the tank for track sessions. Your longevity will thank you for discipline in this regard.
Wow, awesome comeback! I live outside NYC, and it seems like I have a lot of racing options when the time comes. I will check out that YouTube channel, I'm hoping cycling hasn't altered my running biomechanics too much. I do eat fairly healthy. My nutrition has been a bit off since a started walking/running in addition to cycling. I find that I bonk easier on the bike now, but that should be an easy fix.
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krispy kremlin._._._._. wrote:
My bet is: no.
Aside from age, here are your three issues:
1. "Same weight" as high school is a bit deceptive - sure you might see the same number on the scale but where that weight is distributed and it's composition is probably completely different than yourself at 18-20yo. This makes a difference.
2. Cycling - I think this has minimal help to runners particularly at middle distances (unless it is being done as a supplement to a running regiment). As previously mentioned, you might have maintained/developed your cardio but you've more than likely crushed your form/speed (which is obviously vital for middle distances). When I see a competitive runner moving to the bike as replacement for running (aside from injury recovery) a few days a week, my first thought is "they're done with serious running". BTW, I don't think this is the case when runners add/replace running with swimming/aqua-jogging/elliptical/rowing. Something about riding a bike quickly (15-22mph) down the street while covering mass distances (30-50+ miles) at less-than-running-effort does something to the brain that reduces running enthusiasm (just my opinion).
3. Speed - again, age aside, unless you were an absolute speed-demon in high school (naturally in the mid 20s, low 50s), then that boat might have sailed. Speed declines as you age regardless: if you didn't start atop a mountain, you might already be at ground level.
Don't go to a track and try to rip a sub 60sec quarter. Go to the track and try to run a 64-65 and report back... you'll need to repeat that x4..!
Regardless, good luck - please prove me wrong!
-Krispy
Thanks for the feedback! My running biomechanics are definitely a concern with all the cycling. I'm not a speed demon, I believe my PR in the 400 was 54sec.
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Albundy wrote:
Avocado\'s Number wrote:
If you're like a number of us who have tried something similar, you are probably going to notice that, at least initially, your brain still remembers what it felt like, but your legs have trouble doing what your brain remembers. It's an odd neuromuscular disconnect that seems quite different from any diminution in aerobic capacity that may also limit performance.
This brought back a memory of something a tried years ago. I posted on here about it and there was some interest.
I went down to the local track and timed myself for 1 lap. This was done 20 years or so after my best days.
I felt like I was flying, just like the “old days”. Looked down at my watch and I ran it in 85 seconds. Lol. My mind felt fast…my body was in slow motion.
I did something even stupider. I was a pretty good steeplechaser in college. Moved to the roads and am still a pretty decent marathoner at almost 40. After not jumping over a single hurdle in about 18 years, I saw the local all comers meet was having a steeple and thought “I could still do that”. Let’s just say it did not go well.
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Ca$hclay wrote:
Ambitious - but I like the idea and will try and follow your progress. I did the same thing at age 42, but with the more modest goal of running sub 4:40. I basically started back up from scratch with a surfing, beer drinking and 0-2 times a week hobby-jog base. It was a 2 year journey for me though. My 02:
1. Start slow - I tore my quad trying to blast mile repeats @ 5:10 ish pace about 4 months in and that that set me back a while. Stupid. You ain't 17 anymore. In this regard, I would consider a longer timeline than 12 months.
2. Build slow - modest and gradual increases in daily paces and mileage are key. Would consider not even running 2 days in a row for a the 1st few months and under no circumstances, should you put in back 2 back hard days.
3. Run CC or get into some 5ks. A full Fall CC season before Spring and track helped me tremendously. The 5 to 8K distances are good for getting those legs to feel the turnover more similar to the mile, but not quite so fast that your risk the injuries associated with mile race pace.
4. Enjoy the ride. Although trying to hit your time(s) is the ultimate goal, the best part for me was the journey. Training and racing w/old friends and making new ones was awesome. Planning out my training, monitoring progress and setbacks and of course, that feeling of sinking my spikes into the track 20+ years later was more gratifying than hitting my marks.
Large luck
Putting on the spikes again would be a great feeling! We are definitely on the same page with the slow progression and longer timeline. I'm enjoying the process already!
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Albundy wrote:
Avocado\'s Number wrote:
If you're like a number of us who have tried something similar, you are probably going to notice that, at least initially, your brain still remembers what it felt like, but your legs have trouble doing what your brain remembers. It's an odd neuromuscular disconnect that seems quite different from any diminution in aerobic capacity that may also limit performance.
This brought back a memory of something a tried years ago. I posted on here about it and there was some interest.
I went down to the local track and timed myself for 1 lap. This was done 20 years or so after my best days.
I felt like I was flying, just like the “old days”. Looked down at my watch and I ran it in 85 seconds. Lol. My mind felt fast…my body was in slow motion.
My training partner on the bike is in his early 60s and can absolutely fly, former pro, but took a lot of time off. He picked up mountain biking seriously about 5 years ago and is now able to follow me on most jumps, drops and rollers. He just finished a 40-hour week on the MTB, mind-blowing.
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Bill Reilly wrote:
Incredible story - Is Frank Gagliano still coaching? Says he lives in Rye, NY - that's literally down the street from me.
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He's 85 now, so probably not.
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Shiveman wrote:
Bill Reilly wrote:
Incredible story - Is Frank Gagliano still coaching? Says he lives in Rye, NY - that's literally down the street from me.
his wiki says he's still coach of the NY/NJ track club (as of 2020)10 -
I will be following this thread… I am a bit older than you and am pursuing a slightly slower time but not far off… I look forward to your updates… best of luck!
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JiggaWatt? wrote:
I will be following this thread… I am a bit older than you and am pursuing a slightly slower time but not far off… I look forward to your updates… best of luck!
Appreciate that. I’m going to post short updates to my YouTube channel 2 or 3 times a week, but that’s a learning curve in every way possible so I’ll post major updates on this thread as well.
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The 100 up exercise means getting up up up off the ground. You need to break contact with the ground. What you made a video of is not the 100 up exercise.
If you're serious, then you need to start doing things that are running, and/or running related. If not, then well done.
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76 healthy person wrote:
The 100 up exercise means getting up up up off the ground. You need to break contact with the ground. What you made a video of is not the 100 up exercise.
If you're serious, then you need to start doing things that are running, and/or running related. If not, then well done.
Got it, easy fix. Did 3x100 of those the last two days. Also started the elliptical 30 minutes/day. Wasn’t sure if I should be keeping my feet planted on the elliptical?
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Shiveman wrote:
Wasn’t sure if I should be keeping my feet planted on the elliptical?
My feet stay on the plates, though there's an unweighting of the recovery leg, similar to when running. This seems to come natural the more it is used.
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