NYT is your source? LMFAO... ask them about how children are "superspreaders" and "remote learning" is in many ways the best, most "equitable" learning.
Ask them when they returned to the office-- oh wait, most never DID return?
Ask them about their strike "demands" and ask them about the WMDs in Iraq.
If you let me know what the false dichotomy was, I can respond.
I wasn't aware that was your central thesis. I agree artists are human and have flaws. Not sure what that really has to do with this particular thread, other than West is an artist with flaws . . . .
Yes, West likes Hitler and Nazis. He specifically said so multiple times, just yesterday. Here is a quote from him: "I like Hitler."
I didn't understand the second part of your post. I'm not sure what you are getting at. Is it that there are no more Archie Bunker types to point fingers at, so now people just say racism is "systemic" as if that had some deep, permanent meaning? I can see that to some extent.
False dichotomy: you either support or do not support artists with nk middle ground. Curiously, you put me on the fence with regard to your classification.
The question is whether or not the human parts of artists must effect how we understand their work. Uncharitably, this is an insistence on moral purity. No artist can really withstand this test.
Kanye did say "I like Hitler." I would file this under the completely out-of-context tweet by Kanye regarding Bill Cosby's innocence. Both are inflammatory. I think both are deliberate. It's "any press is good press" in my view. Your mileage can and should vary...but repeating "he said this so obviously there can be only one interpretation" (my words, not yours, to be fair) doesn't really get us anywhere. If you wanted to prove that Kanye was anti-semitic, can you dig any deeper? I did provide you with the one line (that I am aware of) in which Kanye mentioned Jews. I also gave you a lyric he penned that is anti-Nazi.
I probably could have been clearer in the second part of my post. I was trying to point out that racism used to be viewed as a moral failing, whereas modern interpretations tend to treat it as a systematic evil (hence, the old view is epitomized by Archie Bunker; the new one by Ari Melber explaining what Jay-Z "really means." We aren't going to see eye-to-eye here, but the most important part of this line of argument is that the way we view societal evils is not cut-and-dried. It involves tradeoffs. For example, during the time where "All in the Family" aired, i think it was easier to have a conversation about racism. "All in the Family" couldn't air today. And I shudder to think of what people would say about the show on Twitter. You may not be bothered by this, and that's fine. All I was trying to do was insist that the modern way of viewing things has some drawbacks.
If I had to be more direct in my response, I would say there is a tendency today to see everybody (and perhaps everything) the way we would see Archie Bunker.
But...more broadly, this thread is littered with people going out of their way to affirm their own beliefs. I'm not an exception, either. Do our beliefs really matter? I don't think so. I think the way we treat each other matters more.
"Every single person has a little good in them." Aww, thanks Cindy Lou Who, that's so heart warming.
Unfortunately, Kanye's point was not "every person has a little good in them," he straight up said "I like Hitler" while slandering jews as pedophiles and pornographers. He has been routinely making anti-Semitic comments for months. (But he loves them, too. Ya, sure.)
It is clearly not obvious to everyone that Hitler was a terrible person. Douglas Burke was just extolling the potential benefits of Hitler's leadership style over what he perceives to be modern day liberalism. As if the whole "exterminate the undesirables" thing was just an unfortunate misstep.
If you say "I like Hitler," despite knowing everything he did, then you cannot be reasoned with or educated. I'm not putting my fingers in my ears yelling "nananana"; that's you, ignoring the growing white nationalist/anti-semitic rhetoric on the right. You can fight it or seek to appease it, but there is no "educating" it.
Stridently opposing Nazism is "virtue-signaling" now? My grandfather, who lost a leg fighting that evil, wouldn't have agreed with you.
I'm with you on opposing Nazism, and I appreciate your Grandfather and his service.
I also do not look to Ye as a moral or thought leader (and in general, it annoys me when just about any musician, athlete, or thespian uses their platform to discuss political issues).
I disagree, however, with your assertion that "acknowledging that 'Hitler did some good things,' then you are minimizing the unprecedented evil they brought upon the world. You are either a Nazi playing coy or an incredibly stupid, naive person who deserves to be ridiculed." As Burke (who by the way, I agree with like 2% of the time) noted, Hitler did not rise to power while having two horns on his head and spiked tail. He did things that people perceived to be good, that most people would call "good". Given our political climate today, where people seem to want to follow their group and call the other evil no matter what, it is worthwhile to recognize that great evil when it is developing may not look so bad to a majority of people. I think that is where Burke was going with it.
According to most accounts, Hitler was a great dog owner. I like dogs as well, and I can appreciate good dog ownership (even if the owner is atrocious in other ways). I don't think acknowledging reality re: Hitler means, as you suggested, that I am "a Nazi playing coy, or an incredibly stupid, naive person who deserves to be ridiculed."
Ironically, I probably agree with you on just about everything WAY more than I do Burke, so... cheers and have a great weekend.
What was so unprecedented about the evil the Nazis did?
Did the Euro powers not engage in genocides, slavery, and colonization? For centuries, not one decade?
Do brown and black lives not matter as much as Jewish ones?
I'm with you on opposing Nazism, and I appreciate your Grandfather and his service.
I also do not look to Ye as a moral or thought leader (and in general, it annoys me when just about any musician, athlete, or thespian uses their platform to discuss political issues).
I disagree, however, with your assertion that "acknowledging that 'Hitler did some good things,' then you are minimizing the unprecedented evil they brought upon the world. You are either a Nazi playing coy or an incredibly stupid, naive person who deserves to be ridiculed." As Burke (who by the way, I agree with like 2% of the time) noted, Hitler did not rise to power while having two horns on his head and spiked tail. He did things that people perceived to be good, that most people would call "good". Given our political climate today, where people seem to want to follow their group and call the other evil no matter what, it is worthwhile to recognize that great evil when it is developing may not look so bad to a majority of people. I think that is where Burke was going with it.
According to most accounts, Hitler was a great dog owner. I like dogs as well, and I can appreciate good dog ownership (even if the owner is atrocious in other ways). I don't think acknowledging reality re: Hitler means, as you suggested, that I am "a Nazi playing coy, or an incredibly stupid, naive person who deserves to be ridiculed."
Ironically, I probably agree with you on just about everything WAY more than I do Burke, so... cheers and have a great weekend.
What was so unprecedented about the evil the Nazis did?
Did the Euro powers not engage in genocides, slavery, and colonization? For centuries, not one decade?
Do brown and black lives not matter as much as Jewish ones?
Were Jews the only victims of the Nazis?
How do you like what is being done to Palestine?
The authors of this page did use a magnifier to find two isolate incidents (in Fez) related to "Islam" in 10 centuries of Islamic-Jew coexistence.
The persecution of Jews has been a major event in Jewish history, prompting shifting waves of refugees and the formation of diaspora communities. As early as 605 BCE, Jews who lived in the Neo-Babylonian Empire were persecute...
I'm with you on opposing Nazism, and I appreciate your Grandfather and his service.
I also do not look to Ye as a moral or thought leader (and in general, it annoys me when just about any musician, athlete, or thespian uses their platform to discuss political issues).
I disagree, however, with your assertion that "acknowledging that 'Hitler did some good things,' then you are minimizing the unprecedented evil they brought upon the world. You are either a Nazi playing coy or an incredibly stupid, naive person who deserves to be ridiculed." As Burke (who by the way, I agree with like 2% of the time) noted, Hitler did not rise to power while having two horns on his head and spiked tail. He did things that people perceived to be good, that most people would call "good". Given our political climate today, where people seem to want to follow their group and call the other evil no matter what, it is worthwhile to recognize that great evil when it is developing may not look so bad to a majority of people. I think that is where Burke was going with it.
According to most accounts, Hitler was a great dog owner. I like dogs as well, and I can appreciate good dog ownership (even if the owner is atrocious in other ways). I don't think acknowledging reality re: Hitler means, as you suggested, that I am "a Nazi playing coy, or an incredibly stupid, naive person who deserves to be ridiculed."
Ironically, I probably agree with you on just about everything WAY more than I do Burke, so... cheers and have a great weekend.
What was so unprecedented about the evil the Nazis did?
Did the Euro powers not engage in genocides, slavery, and colonization? For centuries, not one decade?
Do brown and black lives not matter as much as Jewish ones?
Were Jews the only victims of the Nazis?
How do you like what is being done to Palestine?
The scale of their evil was largely unprecedented. European settlers eradicated the majority of the indigenous North American population, though their violent efforts were very much buoyed by small pox.
There aren’t many examples in human history to which you can compare the Third Reich’s Final Solution. The Khmer Rouge is in the neighborhood. Stalin killed millions of his own people, and Mengistu Haile Mariam killed nearly a million Ethiopians during his rule.
No one says that the Jewish people were the only target in the Holocaust. But they certainly were the primary target. It’s been nearly 80 years since the end of the Third Reich and the Jewish population in Europe is less than a quarter what it was before the start of WW2.
The persecution of Christians can be historically traced from the first century of the Christian era to the present day. Christian missionaries and converts to Christianity have both been targeted for persecution, sometimes t...
Hindus have experienced both historical and ongoing religious persecution and systematic violence, in the form of forced conversions, documented massacres, genocides, demolition and desecration of temples, as well as the dest...
The persecution of Muslims has been recorded throughout the history of Islam, beginning with its founding by Muhammad in the 7th century. In the early days of Islam in Mecca, pre-Islamic Arabia, the new Muslims were often sub...
Many adherents of Buddhism have experienced religious persecution because of their adherence to the Buddhist practice, including unwarranted arrests, imprisonment, beating, torture, and/or execution. The term also may be used...
Anti-Irish sentiment includes oppression, persecution, discrimination, or hatred of Irish people as an ethnic group or a nation. It can be directed against the island of Ireland in general, or directed against Irish emigrants...
As for Kanye, the dude is clearly a pathological narcissist. He just says this dumb sh!t to rile people up and get attention. That's all that's really going on here.
That's NOT all that's going on here. Kanye is out of his mind, clearly, and has been for a long time. But right-wing pundits and media outlets have been using him for clicks and clout, insisting that he's been mistreated and has something worthwhile to say. And what he's got to say is "I like Hitler."
It was no surprise to liberals like me that Kanye finally said the quiet part out loud, but right-wingers were happy to ignore the dog whistling and bask in the "woke outrage" until he finally went full Nazi. They are fully responsible for platforming this sh*t.
Yeah they're stupid. They wanted to use him because he spoke out against BLM. Turns out, the motivation behind him speaking out against BLM was for the attention, not out of pure political activism. Liberals are just as guilty for encouraging him, though. Kanye feeds off of the negative attention he receives, and enjoys the feeling of being persecuted - look up what grandiosity and delusions of persecution are - so whenever liberals publish him in the news for the newest crazy thing he says, they're encouraging him. Just like a drug, Kanye also has to keep pushing the boundaries of crazy, otherwise people get bored and he doesn't get attention. All the while, the media outlets are just raking in the clicks, they love it too.
The scale of their evil was largely unprecedented. European settlers eradicated the majority of the indigenous North American population, though their violent efforts were very much buoyed by small pox.
There aren’t many examples in human history to which you can compare the Third Reich’s Final Solution. The Khmer Rouge is in the neighborhood. Stalin killed millions of his own people, and Mengistu Haile Mariam killed nearly a million Ethiopians during his rule.
No one says that the Jewish people were the only target in the Holocaust. But they certainly were the primary target. It’s been nearly 80 years since the end of the Third Reich and the Jewish population in Europe is less than a quarter what it was before the start of WW2.
Used to be 6 million Jews killed in the H and 6 million "others".
Then it went to 5 million others killed.
Then 5 million others harmed.
Now the 5 million others are pretty much completely written out of the story.
Germans killed over 20 million Russians.
Japanse killed over 14 million Chinese.
Its been nearly 200 years since the Famine and the population of Ireland is barely 1/2 what it was pre Famine.
Tens of millions of Africans, native americans, pacific islanders, etc were genocided by Europeans.
Lots of non Jewish victims. Plenty of atrocities lasted far longer and killed more people than the H. Plenty of non Jewish victims of the Nazis and in wwII in general.
WE are being fed a narrative that favors one group and lines their pockets and protects them from their criminal behavior.
The idea that the ruling elites are the biggest victims of society is crazy
What do your Jewish friends say in response to this?
Used to be 6 million Jews killed in the H and 6 million "others".
Then it went to 5 million others killed.
Then 5 million others harmed.
Now the 5 million others are pretty much completely written out of the story.
Germans killed over 20 million Russians.
Japanse killed over 14 million Chinese.
Its been nearly 200 years since the Famine and the population of Ireland is barely 1/2 what it was pre Famine.
Tens of millions of Africans, native americans, pacific islanders, etc were genocided by Europeans.
Lots of non Jewish victims. Plenty of atrocities lasted far longer and killed more people than the H. Plenty of non Jewish victims of the Nazis and in wwII in general.
WE are being fed a narrative that favors one group and lines their pockets and protects them from their criminal behavior.
The idea that the ruling elites are the biggest victims of society is crazy
What do your Jewish friends say in response to this?
The company line no doubt.
The world's oldest hatred.
Holocaust the worst event in world history.
Etc.
No comment on all the horrific things done to other peoples over time?
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