2 weeks ago, Eliud Kipchoge's training partner was popped for drugs and still nothing from Kipchoge's camp or Kenya?

Yes, this is what I've been maintaining for years - Kenyan performances and times have been declining across the board, at least relatively to others, including the marathon (although a bit more 'behind' track). It's been masked by super shoes and Kipchoge (who is a 38 year old last man standing of the full throttle era).

The average of the top 5 would be even more stark as compared to Ethiopia if you took out Kipchoge and Kipsang.

Thanks for the detailed analysis and for rescuing this thread from the rekrunnering it's taken.

Thread title of the year in fairness dragging kipchoge into it

It does seem that certain athletes are protected

Bolt El guerrouj kipchoge MJ Radcliffe all seemed to escape censure while others got busted

And Lagat's A-Sample which was quickly rectified.

Haile, Bekele, Inge

And yet they busted key athletes who were past their prime and not winning medals any more in Asbel Kiprop, Wilson Kipsang, Mary Slaney Decker, Linford Christie, Dieter Baumann. Could keep going. What was the incentive?

Detailed analysis? OK. I guess we all see what we want.

So you've been maintaining that Kenyan performance has declined across the board and a "detailed analysis" showing top-5 Kenyan averages getting faster supports that?

What I noticed is that in 2015-2019, the only two athletes banned for the use of a banned substance (3 and 4 years after their fast performance) are the two slowest among all the Kenyans and Ethiopians: #9 and #10.

Of course if you take away the top-2 out of the top-5, the average will drop significantly. Bravo.

None of the above was on the level of "Bolt El guerrouj kipchoge MJ Radcliffe".

The incentive is to pretend our sport has exclusively clean athletes at the very very top. All part of the PR.

Eritrean top 5 marathon performers, 2010 – 2014

2:07:27 Asmerom 2011
2:07:28 Tesfamariam Amsterdam 2011
2:07:45 Abraham Zürich 2013
2:08:13 Dagnaw Sharew Eindhoven 2010
2:08:27 Beyene Zerea Hengshui 2014
Ave: 2:07:52

Eritrean top 5 marathon performers, 2015 – 2019

2:06:46 Tsegay Sevilla 2019
2:07:27 Tesfamariam Valencia 2017
2:07:46 Ghebreslassie London 2016
2:07:46 Osman Amsterdam 2019
2:08:09 Kifle Ljubljana 2019
Average: 2:07:35

Improvement: 17 seconds

Japanese top 5 marathon performers, 2010 – 2014

2:07:48 Fujiwara Tokyo 2012
2:08:00 Maeda Tokyo 2013

2:08:09 Matsumura Tokyo 2014
2:08:14 Kawauchi Seoul 2013
2:08:24 Horibata Fukuoka 2012
Average: 2:08:07

Japanese top 5 marathon performers, 2015 – 2019

2:05:50 Osako Chicago 2018
2:06:11 Shiitara Seoul 2018
2:06:54 Inoue Tokyo 2018
2:07:27 Harrori Fukuoka 2018
2:07:39 Imai Tokyo 2015
Average: 2:06:48

Improvement: 79 seconds

German (born) top 5 marathon performers, 2010 – 2014
2:09:32 - Arne Gabius 2014
2:13:05 - Andre Pollmächer 2013
2:13:10 - Jan Fitschen 2012
2:13:57 - Sören Kah 2012
2:14:20 - Julian Flügel 2014
Average: 2:12:49

German (born) top 5 marathon performers, 2015 – 2019
2:08:33 - Arne Gabius 2015
2:12:50 - Philipp Pflieger 2015
2:13:09 - Hendrik Pfeiffer 2016
2:13:57 - Julian Flügel 2015
2:14:54 - Jens Nerkamp 2019
Average: 2:12:41

Improvement: 8 seconds

And what did we get out of this "detailed" analysis?

I compared the two power houses in the marathon. If you look at countries like Germany, it's somewhat of a coin toss because they have so few marathon elites.

Japan of course with its many marathon elites also improved substantially with the super shoes, like Ethiopia, but Kenya did not.

Germany also has less depth at elite level, so their figures can be skewed by one elite guy retiring or getting injured.

And if Kipchoge had retired a couple of years ago like most 36 year olds, Kenyan ave times would actually have gone backwards.

The shoes don't work for average runners - or can't Germans afford them? What about the Eritreans, do you have some elites?

The only Kenyan doping threads that the mods let stay up are those that have been rekrunnered.

So nothing new I take it on this front ? Trouj and NNG are just hoping people forget about it as usual ?

Sub 13 is not natural

Sub 27 is not natural

Sub 2:08 is not natural

Notice how in the epo era it became common place to see many under these times. It’s not just Kenyans. It’s just more of them have a motivator to dope to avoid poverty. In the developed world you could always go to college and get a real job.

Yes of course they do. See Rutto's case.

Nice bump. It's now 2 months ago that "Eliud Kipchoge's training partner was popped for drugs".

The coach (Carol Santa) of the Kenyan-Turkish runner who just got busted, claimed in a Romanian interview that he had worked with Kipchoge.

Obama’s the most famous person of Kenyan descent, EK is probably #2. I don’t like Obama but it makes sense

Great point. Obama must have been juicing. Getting 365 in the electoral college is not natural. I don't believe these Kenyan results at all.

Plus look at his teammate, Joe Biden. He's still so fit this late in his career, it can only be EPO.