Breaking the long run rule

How does a 15 miler set him up for a good week? If he's like most 40 MPW runners, the rest of his week is underwhelming because he is constantly recovering from his weekly 15 miler. Throw in a workout or tempo at race effort. It's a recipe for stagnation, especially at distances less than the marathon.

I hate to say it, but he never ran a marathon as well as might have been expected with his half marathon time and good marathon training. This may or may not be relevant to a discussion on long runs.

Are you talking about Malmo? He ran a ton of long runs in his training.

Sorry if you're talking about someone else.

How is that relevant?

Oh, and long runs are FUN!

To people saying "don't do a 2-hour run, do three 40-minute runs" ... guess what? 99% of runners are doing this as recreation (frankly it is recreation even for "elites" who don't get paid), and the point of recreation is to enjoy it.

Most joes run every day, and look forward to the long run. Going 40 minutes longer or doubling M-W-F is not going to be a positive part of their lives in the way that a weekend long run is.

This. Is. Wrong.

The last 30 minutes of a two-hour run actually do stimulate adaptations that are simply not stimulated in the first 30 minutes of running.

You are downplaying the importance of the long run. Many agree that long runs are a key element of marathon training.

Likewise, many agree that weight training is a key element of injury prevention in sprinting. If a sprint coach says he doesn't believe in weight training, and all his athletes have hamstring trouble, I think that's relevant to an evaluation of his opinion.

I actually think your posts on elite training are very informative. I just don't think your advice here is on target for an 18-minute sub-masters runner.

The point is that many a hobby runner has limited time to actually stick to a thorough training plan throughout the week. So they get in too many miles on the weekend because something is better than nothing. Training for the Olympics, bad plan. Running for fun and maybe PR at a local 5k, whatever you do.

Answer the question. How is that relevant? I've never said that long runs weren't a key element for marathon training? I've probably run more long runs than 99.999 percent of all of the people who've ever posted at letsrun. So how is this relevant to this thread?

The thread is about a 40mpw runner putting 38% of his weekly mileage into single day is ridiculous. Seems like a perfectly straightforward comment to me -- especially for an 18 minute sub-masters runner.

Definitely agree. As a reformed Lydiardite, I used to think otherwise (20% cap) until I proved myself wrong. Per the OP's or anyone else's specific situation, you can't just add time for these things when you have other commitments. If you're some pro runner with no family life then sure, you have tons of flexibility to get in more here and there. If not, you may have to make your proverbial hay where you find your sunshine in a busy life. And it's well known that you certainly can get beneficial adaptations going beyond 90 minutes on a run. I found I could get after 12-18 miles on a 40-60 mpw routine and was never worse for the wear, given that I structured the rest of the week right and didn't go wild on the pacing of that long run. I'd take a recovery day or two of easy running with strides and then could be good for both Tuesday and Friday workouts. If you've got your body conditioned from decades of routine training, your body is adapted to handle a lot of variance that won't be green-lighted by the rigid by-the-book crowd.

This thread has degenerated into a cycle where Malmo says,

1) "Don't neglect the rest of your training by over-relying on your long run."

Someone responds with,

2) "Malmo, how can you say NOT to ever do ANY long runs EVER!?!?!?"

Malmo, clarifies, back to line 1. Then 2. Back to 1, repeat x forever.

You forgot "Why are you against long runs?"

The elapsed time difference between a crappy 5 mile run and a quality 8 mile run is negligible in a 24 hour day. But a quality 8 mile run doesn't get nearly as many kudos on Strava as a pretty 15 long run.

This is where it started, post #2 on this thread:

None of the nuance you implied is there.

Ok post the evidence that doing 1 2 hour run and 2 50mins runs gives different adaptations than doing 1 90min run and 2 65 min runs. We will be waiting a long time.... And no you aren't a rat....

I haven't implied anything. You've inferred incorrectly.

Interpret that however you want yet the board is anonymous. So...

Do whatever bad training program you want and tell me I am wrong. What do I care? Get used to looking at my athlete's backs.

Hit the mental handbrake, my post wasn't even to you.

For those are are advising against the 15 mile long run. Would it be better to do it as a double, e.g a 10 plus 5 in the same day?