But - nobody in history has faster PBs than Jakob at both distances.
Maybe I'm a little slow this morning, but didn't you just show us 3 people who do?
Maybe you are a little slow this morning. Do any of those 3 athletes I listed have faster PBs at both distances? Ingebrigtsen has run faster than Komen at 1500, and faster than El G and Lagat at 5k. None of the 7 men with faster 1500 times than Jakob have run as fast for 5k. Get it?
Jakob nearly broke 4:50 for 2k early on in COVID. To break the record (7:20.67) he'd have to run something like 4:55.3/2:25.3. That is a tough record. Given his training, though, which hardly ever goes below 10k pace, I'd think that the 5000m record would be the most within range, and he'd need cooler conditions than Cheptegei had.
Ingebrigtsen has a special range. He already has maybe the best ever pair of PRs in the 1500m and 5000m.
Off the top of my head, I’d think he’s currently 4th in that contest.
1. El Guerrouj 3:26.00 + 12:50.24 = 2548 points
2. Daniel Komen 3:29.46 + 12:39.74 = 2537 points
3. Bernard Lagat 3:26.34 + 12:53.60 = 2530 points
4. Jakob Ingebrigtsen 3:28.32 + 12:48.45 = 2521 points
But - nobody in history has faster PBs than Jakob at both distances.
Any list that exclude the name of Aouita I will not consider it.
You can add Morceli. Do you forget he is the one that broke Aouita record on the 3000m:
7min 25s
Henri Rono stood 11 years before Aouita break it by almost 2 sec in 1989 (and in the old hard tracks).
Here in this video you can see El Guerrouj praising Aouita and that was his big inspiration in his beginning to the point he had a big poster of Aouita in his room. I have seen a similar declaration from Morceli in the Algerian TV 1989, where Morceli was collecting pics of Aouita in his room.
If you ask me who is the one that had the fastest kick, I will go for:
1. Aouita (peaked from 1985 to 1988)
2. Morceli (extremely fast at his beginning (1991 - 1994)
3. El Guerrouj (It's possible that he is the one that have the best sweet-spot for 1500m distance).
When collect points about athletes, you should take in consideration others factor like consistency, longevity ... not just some PB with an average Mathematical formula.
Ingebrigtsen has a special range. He already has maybe the best ever pair of PRs in the 1500m and 5000m.
Off the top of my head, I’d think he’s currently 4th in that contest.
1. El Guerrouj 3:26.00 + 12:50.24 = 2548 points
2. Daniel Komen 3:29.46 + 12:39.74 = 2537 points
3. Bernard Lagat 3:26.34 + 12:53.60 = 2530 points
4. Jakob Ingebrigtsen 3:28.32 + 12:48.45 = 2521 points
But - nobody in history has faster PBs than Jakob at both distances.
I don’t think it’s a matter of adding up points. The question is whether being 1-3 seconds faster at 1500m makes up for being 9-14 seconds slower at 5000m. We also don’t know if El Guerrouj and Lagat were capable of running faster for 5000m.
Women’s 2000m steeple is stronger than men’s 3000m WR by a factor of 1,053. If you divide 7:20:67 by 1,053 you get 6:58:49.
That means Daniel Komen would have needed to run 6:58 in the 3000m just to equal Gesa Krause’s 2000m steeple world record.
Gesa Krause’s is the ABSOLUTE GOAT her record is stronger than Usain Bolt’s, Rudisha’s, El Guerrouj’s, Komen’s and Cheptegei’s records.
You should define what does "the strongest record" mean. The way I see it it means as much as "most unlikely to be broken", so this way women 2000m Steeple could be stronger than other records. If 10 men this year would run 1500m in 3:28 - 3:29, I would not consider 3:26 a strong record anymore.
Either way, undoubtedly 5000m is the strongest out of the three, and 3000m might be slightly better than 1500m. Don't know what you're complaining about though, since Komen was a beast and running two 3:40 1500m back to back is a crazy feat.
Yes, it's not absolutely clear what "the strongest record" means. But there's absolutely no way to say women's 2000m steeple is stronger than men's 1500m. Absolutely no way.
And - no - the 5000m world record is not undoubtedly the strongest of the three discussed here.
I would say 5000m > 1500m > 3000m, but it's close.
12:40 has been broken by 4 runners. So, 4 guys have come within 5sec of the 5000m WR.
Who has come within 3sec of the 3000m WR? Only El G, right?
I can't help thinking that 3000m WR attempts are just as common as 5000m WR attempts.
So that's why 7:20 tops the list for me.
(And also....it will soon be celebrating its 26th birthday!!)
What you think is irrelevant for the question: no, 3000m WR attempts are by far not as common as 5000m WR attempts.
Komen's best distance probably was 3000m. El Guerrouj's best distance was 1500m. He has raced the distance over 100 times during his professional career. Many of those races pure time trials. So I think it's safe to say 3:26.00 is close to his limit. The 3000m he has raced extremely sparingly, only one (!) pure time trial during his full career. With far from perfect splits he just missed the record by 2.42 seconds. So I don't think it's too far stretched to say he could have come within 1 (at absolut most 2) second of the record. And with some concentration on this distance he clearly was capable to break the record.
For me, both the 5000m (also 10000m) and the 1500m record are better than the 3000m record.
The 3000m record is not weak and Jakob is not beating it. To put this in perspective, when El G ran 7:23, the week before he ran 4:44 for 2000m and the week before that, he won the World Champs in 3:27.65(53.9 last 400, 38.6 last 300) leading from 800 so he was arguably in World record 1500 shape and had set the mile World Record just a month before that so this was absolute prime El G. His opening splits in his 7:23 were a bit erratic, 2:29/2:24 I believe for 4:53 at 2000m but not exactly crazy considering Komen went out in 2:25 and then ran a 57.6 next 400!
El G with ideal pacing that day is maybe running 7:21 and is close but El G being theoretically close is one thing considering who El G is and the performances he was putting in leading up that attempt.
One last comparison. I see a lot of people saying that Jakob's performance in Eugene last week shows that he is currently much better than 12:48, maybe they are right but I want to show some splits to compare his performance to someone else's World final performance. Both took the lead with 1k to go...
Jakob: 2:24 last 1000m
El G : 2:24 last 1000m
Jakob: 59 second last lap
El G: 59 second last lap
Jakob: 54.09 last lap
El G: 53.56 last lap
Jakob: 13:09 finish time
El G: 12:52 finish time
If Jakobs performance in Eugene means he is much better than 12:48. What in the World does El G's performance in Paris say about his 12:50 PR!?!? Prime El G probably had the ability to be close to Komens 7:20 but Jakob will never be in the realm of 3:26 flat wheels while also having probably 12:40-12:45 endurance like El G or having his current 1500 ability plus sub-12:40 endurance like Komen.
And I know people will bring age into and say Jakob is 21, he's turning 22 in less than two months but he is not alone in history anymore to have PR's as fast as his at this age. Hicham had a 3:48 mile PR at 20 and had run 3:29.05 1500m time at 21 but was improving substantially year on year still whereas Jakob is starting to slightly plateau(his 1500 PR "only" dropping 1.7 seconds since he was 18 and 2.7 seconds since he was 17. On the 5000m end, Bekele had run 12:37 for 5000 at 21 and 11 months which is pretty much exactly the age Jakob is now. Daniel Komen had run 3:29/3:46/7:20/12:39 at Jakobs age. Wale ran over 2 seconds faster indoors than Jakob has outdoors when they are both pretty much the same age, Kipchoge and Kiplimo were/are on the same level timewise as him at 3000/5000 at the same age ir younger. Not saying he can't/won't improve but making the point that his age is becoming less and less of an argument every day that passes.
Jakob will not break any of the 1500/mile/3000/5000 records in his career. He will collect a ton of championship medals and will have a list of great times across times across various distances but he will never be fastest ever at any single distance and that's not a knock on him. He's having an incredible career so far but nothing is a given in athletics, especially World Records and even progression.
LOL
Jakob closed the final km in 2:23.19, the fastest 1000 m close in any race under 13:10 (or even 13:30). Done in 90 degree heat.
What you think is irrelevant for the question: no, 3000m WR attempts are by far not as common as 5000m WR attempts.
I'm not trying to be a dick, but why do you say this? How do you know? I think I can count on one hand the number of 5000m WR attempts in the last 10 years. I will gladly admit to being wrong if I missed some of them.
What you think is irrelevant for the question: no, 3000m WR attempts are by far not as common as 5000m WR attempts.
I'm not trying to be a dick, but why do you say this? How do you know? I think I can count on one hand the number of 5000m WR attempts in the last 10 years. I will gladly admit to being wrong if I missed some of them.
Somehow I quoted AND responded in the same block. My wording is bolded here.
What you think is irrelevant for the question: no, 3000m WR attempts are by far not as common as 5000m WR attempts.
I'm not trying to be a dick, but why do you say this? How do you know? I think I can count on one hand the number of 5000m WR attempts in the last 10 years. I will gladly admit to being wrong if I missed some of them.
Come on! Please.
5000m is Olympic event, 3000m not. Coe might change it, but at the moment there are still more big 5000s.
There have been very few wr attempts at either distance over this time period because few have been close to that shape. Cheptegei had two or three attempts but was nowhere near the other two times. You don't necessarily know it's an attempt anyway because they brand them that way for publicity often when there's no chance. Would you add the recent 12:46 race? There was a 12:46 race in Paris in 2012 but no one was going for a wr to my knowledge. There was that 12:43 race with Kejelcha essentially rabbiting. Which others would qualify other than a Cheptegei "attempt" at Pre that fizzled?
As for the 3k, there was perhaps one indoor record attempt, with the 7:24 or 7:25 and I can't think of any outdoors since the days of Bekele and El Guerrouj because the question has always been whether anyone can even go 7:27-29.
For sure it's hard to say which races actually are WR attempts. And in the last decade there probably havn't been many "attempts" at either distance (mainly because nobady has had a serious chance to come close to Komen's and Bekele's time).
But there are much more 5000s at the top-level than 3000s.