Shelby Houlihan - In Utah with BTC same time as BTC - 800m Time Trial

1. Recency bias, she doesn't necessarily get more hate than Lance did on here

2. Wouldnt you expect a runner to get more hate than a cyclist on a ... running forum?

I remember the NOP athletes and Salazar getting burned at the stake publicly by competitors and the media on a daily basis. Letsrun was handing out torches. BTC athletes, in particular Shalane Flanagan, were handing out the gasoline.

But now? Nothing. Just crickets. The media just creates products and packages heroes and villains to sell I guess.

In the end, turns out the BTC were just wolves in sheep’s clothing. And the woke running media and Twitter sphere circle sits on their hands.

Its quite simple really. Schumacher and Shalane are public personalities who coach a team supported by a publicly traded company. Media just needs to track the two coaches down and start asking questions. They didn’t require an invitation when they went after NOP so why are they waiting for one now?

There's definitely something wrong with the situation. Salazar was rightly dragged for what went on at NOP, even before he was suspended, when all we had were testimonies from Magness and Goucher. Now, we have BTC with it's proven doping positive and the coach has not had to answer a single question about it or his subsequent response in allowing the doped athlete to continue training alongside the group. Is it because Schumacher isn't as big a fish as Salazar, that's why no one cares? In the MSM, I'm sure no one even knows who BTC are since, but running journalists should be on this. Why hasn't anyone wrote a feature about the BTCs response to this whole episode? Are they too close to some of the people around BTC e.g. Flanagan has a lot of supporters among the running media. Someone needs to get into this, ask hard questions and do the job of a journalist rather than a scribe.

Great opportunity for Letsrun ~cough~

I find it amazing that for some people their entire world view revolves around a “woke” vs “anti woke” binary, and you are incapable of thinking of any situation beyond a manufactured culture war.

What does any of this have to do with “woke?” In fact, a “woke” media take on this would be that Shelby isn’t being covered aggressively because she’s white, or that drug agencies in sports are part of the war on drugs, and policing and surveilling athletes should be abolished and drug use legalized. You don’t even understand what “woke” means in this context or any political one; it just means anything you disagree with or don’t like. Try thinking about life and what’s around you without defaulting to the laziest, most meaningless arguments. The whole world is not divided into the woke and the anti woke.

Does she have ebola or something?

For that kind of disease she would have to have been in contact with you.

Letsrun is maybe the only source that could produce a story like this. I would assume many t&f journalists don’t want to pursue this story on the basis that they might lose what little access they have to the BTC. It’s not necessarily a good career move to burn a bridge with one of the US’ preeminent track clubs.

To bad they started to collect money for her instead.

Armstronglies can never resist a foul insult.

Okay, so it sounds like you have almost no knowledge of this case or any rules surrounding it. Shelby training in and around BTC IS coming close to breaking rules--it's in a well-established grey area. definitely COULD impact others. So well-known that other members of BTC have left and spoken about how it's caused them to become uncomfortable. Lance Armstrong isn't on an active ban right now so him riding with other pro's right now is definitely not the same thing. I try not to say things like this here, but it sounds like you don't know very much about this case. I know the reason why "I" personally care that it appears that SH is around BTC, is b/c it of what happened with Gabrielle Stafford and the rules about training. Not misogyny. But you can keep on just using that word like you know what it means.

It was a medical diagnosis. But are you feeling left out?

So you admit she is not actually breaking any rules, only that you think she is in a "well established grey area". So what are you upset about?

And you have your foot in your mouth about Lance Armstrong. He has a lifetime ban that never expires and is still riding with current racers and former teammates still doing races.

I know a lot more about the Houlihan case than you do going by your complete lack of knowledge of the Armstrong case.

Well, if Lance is doing it, then it must be well within the rules...

Hey, wasn't he buddies with Salazar?

I'm not upset about anything.

I'm interested in the case because, (as i already stated) of what appears to be continued rule breaking behaviors.

I think its weird, inaccurate and a bit apologist to sit in a post and talk about how Shelby Houlihan isn't hurting anyone by her actions, and why don't we consider her "mental health."

It's established that her actions ARE hurting other team members. They aren't sure if what she is doing is a violation. One serious enough to get them in trouble. They left. So did their sister

The team exists for people not on probabation. NOT Shelby Houlihans mental health. But again, go on being a dopers apologist, calling it something else.

This is kind of silly. And again your comparison to Lance Armstrong is pretty ridiculous and a strange red herring bc he isn't the topic of conversation, this post, etc. He isn't trying to train with a team. But if you want to be right about his lifetime ban ok.

I would guess it is only in this sport and western counties that are bothered about training and bans

Check your memory on the LA hateometer

I agree. LRC was the most likely outlet to do this. They've previously been of the attitude, "no one likes us, we don't care", but in this case, they've chosen not to pursue the hard questions and relied on off the record sources, which seems to include Schumacher. It's looks like the LRC editorial line is to not go in hard on BTC or Schumacher and not ask the awkward questions they were happy to ask of NOP and Salazar, even when Salazar was refusing interviews. Salazar's motives were always in question, Schumacher's motives and integrity remain above reproach on LRC and that's disappointing.

Why it's important that it appears she is continuing to train with her team:

10.14 Status during Ineligibility or Provisional Suspension
10.14.1 Prohibition against Participation during
Ineligibility or Provisional Suspension
No Athlete or other Person who has been
declared Ineligible or is subject to a Provisional
Suspension may, during a period of Ineligibility or
Provisional Suspension, participate in any capacity
in a Competition or activity (other than authorized
anti-doping Education or rehabilitation programs)
authorized or organized by any Signatory,
Signatory’s member organization, or a club or
other member organization of a Signatory’s
member organization, or in Competitions
authorized or organized by any professional
league or any international- or national-level Event
organization or any elite or national-level sporting
activity funded by a governmental agency.77
An Athlete or other Person subject to a period
of Ineligibility longer than four (4) years may,
after completing four (4) years of the period of
Ineligibility, participate as an Athlete in local
sport events not sanctioned or otherwise under
the authority of a Code Signatory or member of a
Code Signatory, but only so long as the local sport
event is not at a level that could otherwise qualify
such Athlete or other Person directly or indirectly
to compete in (or accumulate points toward) a
national championship or International Event,
and does not involve the Athlete or other Person
working in any capacity with Protected Persons.
An Athlete or other Person subject to a period of
Ineligibility shall remain subject to Testing and
any requirement by an Anti-Doping Organization
to provide whereabouts information.
10.14.2 Return to Training
As an exception to Article 10.14.1, an Athlete
may return to train with a team or to use the
facilities of a club or other member organization
of a Signatory’s member organization during
the shorter of: (1) the last two (2) months of the
Athlete’s period of Ineligibility, or (2) the last onequarter of the period of Ineligibility imposed.

77 [Comment to Article 10.14.1: For
example, subject to Article 10.14.2
below, Ineligible Athletes cannot
participate in a training camp,
exhibition or practice organized by their
National Federation or a club which is
a member of that National Federation
or which is funded by a governmental
agency. Further, an Ineligible Athlete
may not compete in a non-Signatory
professional league (e.g., the National
Hockey League, the National Basketball
Association, etc.), Events organized
by a non-Signatory International
Event organization or a non-Signatory
national-level Event organization
without triggering the Consequences
set forth in Article 10.14.3. The term
“activity” also includes, for example,
administrative activities, such as
serving as an official, director,
officer, employee, or volunteer of the
organization described in this Article.
Ineligibility imposed in one sport shall
also be recognized by other sports (see
Article 15.1, Automatic Binding Effect of
Decisions). An Athlete or other Person
serving a period of Ineligibility is
prohibited from coaching or serving as
an Athlete Support Person in any other
capacity at any time during the period
of Ineligibility, and doing so could also
result in a violation of 2.10 by another
Athlete. Any performance standard
accomplished during a period of
Ineligibility shall not be recognized by
a Signatory or its National Federations
for any purpose.]
78 [Comment to Article 10.14.2:
In many Team Sports and some
individual sports (e.g., ski jumping and
gymnastics), Athletes cannot effectively
train on their own so as to be ready to
compete at the end of the Athlete’s
period of Ineligibility. During the
training period described in this Article,
an Ineligible Athlete may not compete
or engage in any activity described in
Article 10.14.1 other than training.]