The Barkley Marathons Has Begun!

No chance of that :). I'm orienteer who has dropped a few things in the woods over the years fumbling with bags. Just suggestion to use something with a more reliable closure than a standard ziplock bag for something that will be opened and closed frequently in potentially wet and dirty conditions. I remember Sabbe posting here before his long hiking trail records, so who knows, maybe another LR reader will be other there next year ;).

Pretty fair amount of firsttimers IMHO:

docs.google.com

Barkley Results

1995-2022 Year,Number of starters,Loop 1 finishers,Loop 2 finishers,Loop 3 finishers,Loop 4 finishers,Loop 5 finishers 1995,39,34,10,6,1,1 1996,24,18,2,2,0,0 1997,31,24,6,3,0,0 1998,35,28,13,5,0,0 1999,33,29,7,3,0,0 2000,35,3...

Link:docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1kZY_hO...

I used to talk smack like that about Barkley about 30 years ago, before I matured. Since then, I realized that not everyone is naturally tough enough and fast enough to challenge for a road marathon win, no matter how hard they train. In the same way, not everyone is tough enough and fast enough to finish Barkley, no matter how hard they train. Or maybe even IF they train hard enough, given all the things that can go wrong in a race that lasts nearly 30 times longer than a winning road marathon.

It's okay to appreciate outrageously difficult running feats, even if they're not your cup of tea.

Your event sucks but maybe if you put some effort into it someday you'll get big enough to have a LR thread filled with your own haters. Good luck

So has anyone ever gone to Frozen head and did the course or tried off track hiking there to experience it?

If you showed up there next week......wouldnt you be able to trace the course for some of it following their trails?

So no one has even finished Loop 4 much less Loop 5 in the last few years.

From what I know of this nonsensical race it'a not a 'race' or even meant to be 'finished'. It just seems like an event you 'experience'.

Alan

Apparently the course changes each year. I would imagine if someone wanted they could explore the area and become familiar with each nook and cranny.

Alan

I guess keep telling yourself this. Maybe you don't realize but everyone out there gets cold, slips and hurts themselves, gets lost etc... the difference is that they dont let that stop them. How is something 'equally hard' if you are not even willing to do it in the first place?

You sorta make it hard to root for you. Used to be a big fan (another plant based ultra runner here) but pretty much stopped following you after reading these kinds of comments every time you post about ultras here. Its unfortunate because you could do really well at the 100+ mile distance but you seem undermine your chances with this 'its not actually that tough' mentality.

I am not even that big of a fan of the Barkley but it should be obvious that it is without a doubt one of the toughest, mentally and physically, endurance events on the planet.

Here's an idea for you to show us all how these events are not even that hard or harder than any other running event. Why not set a new FKT on Nolan's 14 route. Theres literally no entry process for you to complain about and is right in your backyard. Get your girl and some buddies to crew you, should be a piece of cake.

Your aren't allowed to run/hike off trail during the rest of the season for precisely this reason. Otherwise you'd get Barkley runners doing this and trampling vegetation along the main routes. If it's discovered that you have done this you are DQed I believe.

Sage is right about this.

Barkley is a BS event to stroke Laz ego. He makes the race harder when somebody finishes. Just like Marathons get longer when records get broken. Oh wait, they don't do that.

You are free to think its bs. That doesn't dispute it being harder, you even stated 'Laz makes it harder'. So how is it right to say that ANY distance even is equally as hard?

Also, its not just this one comment. Sage frequently complains on here and then ends his posts with this same crap every time about how ultras are not more mentally/physically harder yet he has absolutely failed at 100 mile races which he seems ok to admit but its always some bs excuse, blaming the kinds of thinks that 100 mile champions deal with all the time yet go on to win races dealing with those same issues.

Yes, every running event IS hard when you are pushing yourself to the limit. But doesn't mean it is 'equally hard' or even the same kind of hard.

Again, I am not necessarily defending Barkley. Thats why I brought up Nolan's which IMO is way more impressive than Barkley. Nolans has many of the same elements that makes Barkleys tough, huge vert, navigation with off trail sections. But it also has elements Barkleys doesnt have like being solo the whole time, higher altitude. And the best part is that it is completely open to anyone with the balls to try it. No hiding behind a difficult entry process. Put up or shut up.

okay go finish the Barkley if its easy

Did anyone here say it was easy? Please show me that post.

Not sure that this is accurate. I'm positive people go there for "recon" leading up to the race. Jamil even posted a Boot camp series on YouTube featuring this type of activity. As far as I know, he continues to get invited back to Barkley.

They still only go on the recognized trails in that park in that video.

People run Frozen Head often, it's just that Laz changes the course.

I consider the Barkley to be more of an orienteering challenge than actually running event. At most it resides out in the far corners of the running world, but to each his own.

All this barkley talk is making me want to take a crack at nolans. Maybe not under the time limit, but it'd be such an adventure. Barkley to me is the equivalent of gaining vert by running stairs or going up and down your town's one steep hill. I would go crazy. But out in the big wild mountains, I want to be battling that.

I've run a few miles inside FHSP...on the "regular" marked trails. Here's my take:

The thing with FHSP and that area of the state..all the ridgelines look exactly the same. There are so many of them, all of them are almost the exact same height.

You get off the marked trail and I can easily see how you'd have no idea where you are real quick. Add in the weather, the disorientation and yeah, good luck.

I would argue that the navigation for Nolan's is nothing, nothing compared to the navigation required of Barkley. I grew up on the east coast and have a lot of experience navigating through the woods around there, and now I live in Colorado. I've climbed all 14 of the Nolan's 14ers, including some unconventional routes and large linkups (though nothing close to all of Nolan's). Navigating in that area is a piece of cake. Individual mountains are easily recognizable, the terrain is generally very open even below treeline, and you can orient yourself using the mountain ranges themselves. Out east the trees cover things up, even in winter. The Appalachians are old and weathered and there is a lot more nuance to the terrain that makes navigating difficult. According to the Nolan's 14 official page, there is a 15% finish rate. I don't feel like doing the math for Barkley, but the finish rate is undoubtedly way lower. Let's assume they attract a similar caliber of ability, though if anything the average Nolan's attempt is not quite as experienced as the average Barkley attempt. Personally I would rather try Nolan's than Barkley (I'm planning an attempt this August actually) but I would say that the navigation and physical challenge of Barkley is significantly greater than Nolan's, even factoring in altitude.