I agree. I think in the long course triathlons, runners will be more likely to successfully transition from running to triathlon. There have been a few female, amateur (OTQ in the Marathon) runners who have transitioned to half and full distance triathlons and earned their pro cards within a year.
Yeah this is almost right but in today's landscape athletes are getting really, really good at all three disciplines. When you go to the longer stuff, you also have to swim/bike a lot further. I feel like some athletes are doing themselves a disservice because they can be competitive at the sprint/olympic distance. The bike is ~50% of the race at 70.3 & above. So the swim becomes a smaller percent as you move up & the run becomes more but now you have to be able to run off of a longer bike. Plenty of OTQ types have gotten their pro card but they haven't been super competitive in deeper races.
&, brojos, can you change the title of this? Did OP & others even read the article?
“It would be a huge disservice for all of the women who are already out there kicking butt for me to say, ‘I can swim and run. I’m going to be really good at this,’” she said. “I have a lot to learn and far too much respect for athletes who have worked tirelessly in the sport for me to just think I can jump in and be the next best thing.”
She comes across as more than humble. The reporter likely got to asking about swim stuff & she said what she said about it. & she's TRYING to become a professional triathlete. It looks like she has done one sprint & got a 97 score rating. Last year the pro threshold was 104. This year it's a little higher. She'll have plenty of competition this weekend. I would expect her to qualify on place or by score rating. She can absolutely turn pro.
Gwen Jorgensen is a good comparison. D1 runner, swimming background, turned into a world beater. Cain has better running talent. She could get really good at this. It's disappointing that so many don't read things & just want to come on here & bash her. & it's disappointing that the brojos don't do a better job correcting headlines. It's all about clicks but this is the kind of stuff that really shines a negative light on this space.
As a large (75kg) and yet competitive runner in my age group, I thought that Triathlon might be perfect for me. Completed a half dozen 1/2 Ironmans and a couple of full Ironman's(including Kona), but man I really really suck on the bike and nothing seemed to help. Also, swimming - not great. Always seemed to me that some runners can bike (e.g. Michael Woods), and some just can't for the life of them. I'm not sure why. Does anybody have an insight in to why that is? It was back to just running for me.
FWIW that one sprint she did she had the 13th fastest swim (M/F) out of 263 people. She went 28:47 for the 10 mile bike (20.8mph). Then she had the #1 overall run, ~18-flat for 5k.
Triathlons are notorious for being short or long or whatever. No course is ever measured right so you look & see how you stack up versus the field. The swim reads as solid. The bike tells me there's some work to do there. & the run is elite.
It's a jigsaw puzzle putting together the different disciplines. There are going to be women who run over 20:00 that can get their pro card but obviously go a lot faster on the swim/bike. That race was in Miami so the bike course was probably flat/fast. It also happened last September. She probably had very few lifetime miles in the bank. It's natural to pace comfortably enough on the bike so you can get to your favorite part if you have a running background. Makes sense to race that way, whether intentional or not, in your first one. She probably passed tons of people. But she also could have run closer to 19:00 & gone faster if she worked the bike more. More bang for your buck there.
SafeSport arbitrator did not reject Mary Cain claim about fat shaming. Almost every distance runner who trained under Salazar at the sametime backed up her claims on emotional damage. She definitely suffered.
Being fat is not healthy. How is addressing the topic open and honestly a bad thing?
Are you seriously trying to suggest that Mary Cain (or anyone in the NOP) was overweight to the point of experiencing health problems? The "fattest" elite runner is leaner than the average American adult. And don't try to deflect by claiming that you were making a statement about "addressing the topic open [sic] and honestly" in society at large, since the thread and the comment you were replying to are specifically about Mary Cain.
Was she claiming she's a pro triathlete? Is she not racing to try to get her pro card?
Anyway, as she continued to mature it was clear she couldn't run world class times anymore while staying healthy. I applaud her willingness to give another sport a shot and she's probably having a lot of fun doing something new where she can improve and set personal bests again, which was not going to happen anymore for her with running unless she moved up to distances she had previously never competed at.
I have a feeling she's going to look like a total Fred on the bike, but hey that means she'll fit right in with the tri crowd.
Don’t be so sure about looking like a “Fred” on the bike. She’s got the build to be a strong time trial rider, and that’s all that matters in triathlon. Long legs, big VO2. She just needs to learn to pedal smoothly and handle the bike. True some people never get comfortable on the bike, but I would bet she’s already done some tests to see how she might do. She would need a coach to guide her.
Triathlon could be just the right fit for Cain. I would not be surprised to see her up with the elite females for those short course Super League events.
As a large (75kg) and yet competitive runner in my age group, I thought that Triathlon might be perfect for me. Completed a half dozen 1/2 Ironmans and a couple of full Ironman's(including Kona), but man I really really suck on the bike and nothing seemed to help. Also, swimming - not great. Always seemed to me that some runners can bike (e.g. Michael Woods), and some just can't for the life of them. I'm not sure why. Does anybody have an insight in to why that is? It was back to just running for me.
I also wonder about this. I'm age-group competitive and generally faster than 99% of regular people at running. But I am SUPER mediocre on the bike, even during times when I trained for it somewhat. What's up with that?
5:48 is 1:10/100. For a 12 year old, that is impressive since it means she's got the technique. The endurance would have come if she had stuck with it.
if you can swim and run, the bike will work itself out.
This could be really fun to watch unfold. Good for her!
Being fat is not healthy. How is addressing the topic open and honestly a bad thing?
Are you seriously trying to suggest that Mary Cain (or anyone in the NOP) was overweight to the point of experiencing health problems? The "fattest" elite runner is leaner than the average American adult. And don't try to deflect by claiming that you were making a statement about "addressing the topic open [sic] and honestly" in society at large, since the thread and the comment you were replying to are specifically about Mary Cain.
Are you suggesting that weight is not a factor in world class distance running?
It's not crazy to say you could have been a D1 swimmer. There's literally 100s of 5:30+ female milers on D1 teams around the nation. Why is everyone always so butt hurt about Cain?
I'm a former swimmer, runner, and triathlete. Everything that Cain says is entirely plausible. I am slightly bearish on her triathlon career, but it's likely reasonable for her to shoot for a career as a professional triathlete.
1) The swimming question depends a lot on her times. By age 15, swimmers likely know whether they are a D1 talent or not. If she was under 5:00 in the 500 free, she certainly could have gone D1 (although maybe not for the very best teams). Between 5:00 and 5:15, she could have gone to a mid-major team, but wouldn't have been a star anywhere. Between 5:15 and 5:30, I'm sure she could have found a spot at a small D1, but this is more the range of trying to score at a D3 conference meet. (Of course, the 500 free may not have been her target event, in which case, look up the equivalent power points). Finally, I wouldn't read too much into it, but it is a bit surprising that Cain didn't mention her swim times.
2) She can't get past her physical issues just by switching sports. The training is different, the body type is different and triathletes don't always peak at the same time as runners. But the feeling of being in peak form and firing on all cylinders is the same. Cain for reasons that have discussed ad nauseum is not currently at her physical peak. It's likely that whatever she does as a triathlete, she could have been faster had she switched at age 16.
3) I find that some excellent runners also make excellent swimmers, and some do not. Part of it is experience, but I find that the talent aspect of technique is orthogonal to running talent. It remains to be seen whether Cain has talent in that area. If she does, she could have a successful triathlon career, but if not she may struggle.
4) Cain will likely never be a monster on the bike, but it won't make or break her. If she gets to a place where her swimming is competitive and her running is close to what it used to be, she'll figure out the bike leg. If not, no biking ability will save her.
5) A good reference point for Cain is Gwen Jorgensen. Gwen was likely around 4:50-5:00 for the 500 free in college (solid D1, but not making NCAAs), and an incredible off-the-bike runner. Her bike leg was what you get when you take that outstanding of an athlete and have them work very hard, but I wouldn't say it was a particular talent of hers. She came to triathlon at a similar age as Cain, and after "retiring" from sport. Cain will likely never be able to run like Gwen, and probably not swim like her either, but this is the reason that it's foolish to count out Cain for any success.
To summarize, it really comes down to two things: Does Cain have talent as a swimmer? And does Cain's body still have the ability to be the same level of overall athlete she used to be? If so, she'll be very competitive, potentially on an international level. If not, she may struggle.
I enjoyed the time you put in to this.
I'm glad Cain is pursuing her dreams. I got back into running after college as I very much thought to myself, "When I'm old, I don't want to have a regret and wonder, 'Would I have been great at running if I gave it a go?'" Now I don't have to ask that question. Neither will Cain.
So I'm glad she's doing. Now how do I think she'll do?
You asked in the last paragraph, "Does Cain's body still have the ability to be the same level of overall athlete she used to be?"
I think the answer to that is no. She has not come close to approaching her old times. The question I have is, "Does she need to?"
Two years ago, Cain ran 8:07 for 3k. Taylor Knibb was a US Olympian this year. I'm familiar with her as she attended Cornell. Her 3k pb is 9:40. Now she's a better runner than that as she made NCAAs in xc individually (125th).
The woman right behind Knibb at NCAAs has a 9:07 pb.
But the worry for me is this. When Cain is focused on just running, she may be as good as some of the traithletes at running. But she's not going to be solely focused on running. So she may not even be as good at them at running and I think she'll almost certainly be way worse than them at other events. Knibb for example is incredible at cycling.
One other big worry, given the fact Cain is a sub-2:00 800 woman, why do we think she'll be good at an event that lasts something like close to 2 hours? Cain is too mid-d of an athlete in my mind to be the type of woman that will rock a 10k at the end of a triathlon.
5:48 is 1:10/100. For a 12 year old, that is impressive since it means she's got the technique. The endurance would have come if she had stuck with it.
if you can swim and run, the bike will work itself out.
This could be really fun to watch unfold. Good for her!
That is be a 500 yard time. The pace per 100m is more like 1:18.
That is not special at age 12.
Her 50 and 100 free times (SC yards) were also not good: 28.5 and 1:02.
Funny, I did a few local sprint triathlons and my swimming sucks but I often clocked one of the top 3 times on the bike. I thought that it was normal for runners to suck at running and be competitive on the bike.
I did not find it too hard to get used to the twi-bike, but my experience is for non-drafting triathlons, I suspect that riding with the pack would be different animal.
It's too early for April Fool's. Mary Cain is now claiming she is a professional triathlete and that she could easily be a D1 swimmer if she wanted. Wow, what humbleness.
LRC Note: We are pleased to see this post receiving so many down votes as what the OP wrote is factually incorrect. He or she wrote that Cain said she "easily" could have been a D1 swimmer when Cain actually said she "probably" could have been D1: “I could have probably gone D1 as a swimmer,” she said of her potential in the pool. “By seventh grade, it was becoming apparent that I’d be a better runner.”
We have changed the title of the thread so that it is now factually correct. It was initially entitled "Mary Cain Becomes a Pro Triathlete, Claims She Could Easy Have Been a D1 Swimmer"
More of a human interest story than a reality that she will succeed, and what is succeeding? Olympics? Weekend Warrior? That being said, Mary is clearly searching for her identity, or any identity for that matter. The high school stuff is great, but she's 25 years old and has done NOTHING as a professional runner. Suing Salazar, working for Tracksmith, blah, blah, and BLAH!
5:48 is 1:10/100. For a 12 year old, that is impressive since it means she's got the technique. The endurance would have come if she had stuck with it.
if you can swim and run, the bike will work itself out.
This could be really fun to watch unfold. Good for her!
That is be a 500 yard time. The pace per 100m is more like 1:18.
That is not special at age 12.
Her 50 and 100 free times (SC yards) were also not good: 28.5 and 1:02.
I'm a former swimmer, runner, and triathlete. Everything that Cain says is entirely plausible. I am slightly bearish on her triathlon career, but it's likely reasonable for her to shoot for a career as a professional triathlete.
1) The swimming question depends a lot on her times. By age 15, swimmers likely know whether they are a D1 talent or not. If she was under 5:00 in the 500 free, she certainly could have gone D1 (although maybe not for the very best teams). Between 5:00 and 5:15, she could have gone to a mid-major team, but wouldn't have been a star anywhere. Between 5:15 and 5:30, I'm sure she could have found a spot at a small D1, but this is more the range of trying to score at a D3 conference meet. (Of course, the 500 free may not have been her target event, in which case, look up the equivalent power points). Finally, I wouldn't read too much into it, but it is a bit surprising that Cain didn't mention her swim times.
2) She can't get past her physical issues just by switching sports. The training is different, the body type is different and triathletes don't always peak at the same time as runners. But the feeling of being in peak form and firing on all cylinders is the same. Cain for reasons that have discussed ad nauseum is not currently at her physical peak. It's likely that whatever she does as a triathlete, she could have been faster had she switched at age 16.
3) I find that some excellent runners also make excellent swimmers, and some do not. Part of it is experience, but I find that the talent aspect of technique is orthogonal to running talent. It remains to be seen whether Cain has talent in that area. If she does, she could have a successful triathlon career, but if not she may struggle.
4) Cain will likely never be a monster on the bike, but it won't make or break her. If she gets to a place where her swimming is competitive and her running is close to what it used to be, she'll figure out the bike leg. If not, no biking ability will save her.
5) A good reference point for Cain is Gwen Jorgensen. Gwen was likely around 4:50-5:00 for the 500 free in college (solid D1, but not making NCAAs), and an incredible off-the-bike runner. Her bike leg was what you get when you take that outstanding of an athlete and have them work very hard, but I wouldn't say it was a particular talent of hers. She came to triathlon at a similar age as Cain, and after "retiring" from sport. Cain will likely never be able to run like Gwen, and probably not swim like her either, but this is the reason that it's foolish to count out Cain for any success.
To summarize, it really comes down to two things: Does Cain have talent as a swimmer? And does Cain's body still have the ability to be the same level of overall athlete she used to be? If so, she'll be very competitive, potentially on an international level. If not, she may struggle.
I enjoyed the time you put in to this.
I'm glad Cain is pursuing her dreams. I got back into running after college as I very much thought to myself, "When I'm old, I don't want to have a regret and wonder, 'Would I have been great at running if I gave it a go?'" Now I don't have to ask that question. Neither will Cain.
So I'm glad she's doing. Now how do I think she'll do?
You asked in the last paragraph, "Does Cain's body still have the ability to be the same level of overall athlete she used to be?"
I think the answer to that is no. She has not come close to approaching her old times. The question I have is, "Does she need to?"
Two years ago, Cain ran 8:07 for 3k. Taylor Knibb was a US Olympian this year. I'm familiar with her as she attended Cornell. Her 3k pb is 9:40. Now she's a better runner than that as she made NCAAs in xc individually (125th).
The woman right behind Knibb at NCAAs has a 9:07 pb.
But the worry for me is this. When Cain is focused on just running, she may be as good as some of the traithletes at running. But she's not going to be solely focused on running. So she may not even be as good at them at running and I think she'll almost certainly be way worse than them at other events. Knibb for example is incredible at cycling.
One other big worry, given the fact Cain is a sub-2:00 800 woman, why do we think she'll be good at an event that lasts something like close to 2 hours? Cain is too mid-d of an athlete in my mind to be the type of woman that will rock a 10k at the end of a triathlon.
Thanks for these thoughts, Rojo.
To clarify part of my earlier post, Cain definitely does not have to be as fast a runner as she was in high school to become an elite triathlete. She wouldn't be, anyway, when she's trying to balance the running training with swimming and biking.
The question is: Is that level of overall fitness still possible?
One could argue that aside from some injuries and body composition changes, she's still the same athlete. Running is just no longer the right sport for her body. If this is the case, by laying off the running a bit she can get very fit swimming and biking and use minimal running training combined with her overall talent to become very good.
On the other hand, if her physical problems are not just running specific, then she probably won't be able to get to the same level of overall fitness. Her swimming and biking, instead of just being weaknesses on the world stage (like they were for Gwen) will be weaknesses on the domestic stage. And maybe she'll run 17:30 off the bike, but she won't run 16:30. By saying "overall fitness", what I really mean is that it's less likely that Cain has two great legs and a problem with the third. If she doesn't meet her goals, it's probably because all three legs underwhelm (relative to her standards).
About swim times: 5:48 for 500 and 1:02 for 100 are decent but not particularly strong times for a 12-year-old. And swimmers mature much earlier than runners, so I doubt Cain was destined for an all-American D1 career. But there's still a lot of change between 12 and 15. So it's possible (although not the most likely scenario) that Cain had a big drop to say 5:10 at age 15, and could have been sub-5 in college. But there's no evidence in the posted times that swimming will be a particularly strong leg for her.
Finally, about the "pro card", don't confuse it with going pro in running. A pro card just means you are eligible to compete in the "professional" division in certain races; it doesn't necessarily mean you will make lots of money. Getting a pro card is quite a substantial achievement, and only very good athletes can do it, but it's a couple levels below international competition. Maybe it's on the level of qualifying for marathon trials. So when Cain is saying that she wants to go pro, it's possible that she's willing to settle for that lower end of "pro", while of course shooting for the highest level she can.
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