Certainly, she's allowed to train and run TTs on her own, and I presume with other hobbyjoggers as well, even very very fast hobbyjoggers, as pacers. I would be happy to volunteer. For 200 meters.
I'd love to see Shelby run a 10K TT with some pacers, videotape it and have everyone post their GPS trace on Strava. If she broke the American record, I honestly don't see what difference it makes - to her - whether it was in sanctioned competition or not. That would be way more satisfying actually.
According to WADA the only activity related to her sport she’s allowed to participate in is education. Also, she is not allowed to be paid for anything related to her sport.
She is going to get her ban extended if she is not careful.
Also, there are many track meets and major marathons that don’t invite athletes with drug convictions, even after the ban is served.
think they heard about this guy and planned accordingly as highly-paid professional athletes and coaches?
You're reading of the WAADC is missing out a crucial part - it says education only activity *organized* by a member federations, or member federations affiliated club, or activity involving athletes of member affiliated federations/clubs.
The general read on this is she can't train not just with anyone from BTC, but not even an 85 year old masters runner so long as they have a USATF membership or any other national federation membership. Cant use facilities supported by funds from USATF or affiliated club.
There's a couple of gaps in the rules here for Houlihan though. It does not say she can't go to a track at a time that it's accessible to the public and use it as a member of the public would. So she's fine there.
She could still feasibly be coached by Schumacher legally in my opinion, she would just have to pay him for private coaching services. I used to be coached by a div1 track coach though wasn't on his team; I paid him to coach me privately on the side and so a lot of my workouts and how my training was structured looked the same as what that NCAA team did but 1) I clearly wasn't on the team and 2) as I was paying him, I wasn't just freeloading off of the team. To be clear I wasn't serving a ban, but I don't see how what I was doing wouldn't be allowed under the code so if Houlihan did something similar I don't see how that wouldn't be allowed either. It's kind of a loophole, but these rules are pretty vague. The key word "activity" isn't even properly defined.
The big piece where I am curious how she is managing is pacers. Presumably she isn't running these times completely solo and has at least one pacer, probably male, helping her. Per the rules the pacer wouldn't able to be a registered member of USATF (or other federation), so she has to either have found someone fast enough to pace her that also isn't doing any sanctioned races otherwise or she is breaking the rules on that front.
It's not essential to be a member of USATF to run a lot of races here. When I came here from England, I would have been quick enough to do a lot of training with Shelby, and I was racing in local 5ks without having to have USATF membership, in fact the only time I've joined was if I wanted to run the USATF Masters Championships.
It's got to be easy enough to find guys who could help her through training and who aren't likely to be running USATF Championships, and therefore don't need a membership.
I swear to god, our conscious uncoupling from a. drug cheat has never been so difficult.
Regina Jacobs, caught? Gone.
Remember Deeja Youngquist? You don't. There's a reason for that.
Lisa Stublic? The Croatian? Yeah. Done and done.
Ruth Jebet? Jemima Sumgong? Rita Jeptoo? Oh what am I saying? Those are just nameless faceless Kenyans who don't have Harry Potter tattoos or cool vans so they aren't really human to us anyway. By the way? Did anyone locate Ruth Jebet, the teenager who ran for Bahrain under sketchy conditions? Is she...okay?
But here we are in the age of social media and Shelby Houligan can't accept the Houli-ban. And apparently neither can the gods at letsrun.
It's not essential to be a member of USATF to run a lot of races here. When I came here from England, I would have been quick enough to do a lot of training with Shelby, and I was racing in local 5ks without having to have USATF membership, in fact the only time I've joined was if I wanted to run the USATF Masters Championships. It's got to be easy enough to find guys who could help her through training and who aren't likely to be running USATF Championships, and therefore don't need a membership.
Speaking of memberships, appears Shelby is no longer an "official" member of the BTC. Her bio has been quietly removed from the Roster page . . .
The Bowerman Track Club is a Portland, Oregon based club providing running opportunities for youth, elite, masters and professional runners in the Portland area.
Between this interview and the fact that Houlihan made her Strava activities private a few days ago, it's glaringly obvious that BTC think that the rules don't apply to them.
Indeed. Sadly, they are correct.
Cases in point:
1) Her provisional suspension (kept secret against AIU policy without explanation) counts towards the four years, although she continued practicing with the team during that time.
2) She openly copied BTC workouts during her ban, right after they were done, on the same courses, without even trying to hide it, and without any consequences whatsoever.
AIU/WA should show some backbone, and start her four year ban all over now.
I could be wrong, but i would be surprised if you were not allowed to practice or do otherwise "normal" activities during a provisional suspension.
its a good question though. if you are on bail; that time doesnt count, but if incarcerated then time served.
so the onus should be on the athlete to decide where they want to go - confident of being cleared - train with the others but the time dont count. take the full force of potential ban during your provisional - time counted.
there needs to be more incentive to come clean and whistleblow but there just isnt.
1) Her provisional suspension (kept secret against AIU policy without explanation) counts towards the four years, although she continued practicing with the team during that time.
2) She openly copied BTC workouts during her ban, right after they were done, on the same courses, without even trying to hide it, and without any consequences whatsoever.
AIU/WA should show some backbone, and start her four year ban all over now.
I could be wrong, but i would be surprised if you were not allowed to practice or do otherwise "normal" activities during a provisional suspension.
Why do posters not read the actual rules.
They have been provided several times on this page; so why do they sit there unread.
They also make interesting reading as to what the athlete and coach need to be aware of.
You're reading of the WAADC is missing out a crucial part - it says education only activity *organized* by a member federations, or member federations affiliated club, or activity involving athletes of member affiliated federations/clubs.
The general read on this is she can't train not just with anyone from BTC, but not even an 85 year old masters runner so long as they have a USATF membership or any other national federation membership. Cant use facilities supported by funds from USATF or affiliated club.
There's a couple of gaps in the rules here for Houlihan though. It does not say she can't go to a track at a time that it's accessible to the public and use it as a member of the public would. So she's fine there.
She could still feasibly be coached by Schumacher legally in my opinion, she would just have to pay him for private coaching services. I used to be coached by a div1 track coach though wasn't on his team; I paid him to coach me privately on the side and so a lot of my workouts and how my training was structured looked the same as what that NCAA team did but 1) I clearly wasn't on the team and 2) as I was paying him, I wasn't just freeloading off of the team. To be clear I wasn't serving a ban, but I don't see how what I was doing wouldn't be allowed under the code so if Houlihan did something similar I don't see how that wouldn't be allowed either. It's kind of a loophole, but these rules are pretty vague. The key word "activity" isn't even properly defined.
The big piece where I am curious how she is managing is pacers. Presumably she isn't running these times completely solo and has at least one pacer, probably male, helping her. Per the rules the pacer wouldn't able to be a registered member of USATF (or other federation), so she has to either have found someone fast enough to pace her that also isn't doing any sanctioned races otherwise or she is breaking the rules on that front.
It's not essential to be a member of USATF to run a lot of races here. When I came here from England, I would have been quick enough to do a lot of training with Shelby, and I was racing in local 5ks without having to have USATF membership, in fact the only time I've joined was if I wanted to run the USATF Masters Championships.
It's got to be easy enough to find guys who could help her through training and who aren't likely to be running USATF Championships, and therefore don't need a membership.
I can see no reason why a USATF athlete can’t run with her.It is the USATF organised bit that matters.
I could be wrong, but i would be surprised if you were not allowed to practice or do otherwise "normal" activities during a provisional suspension.
As Reported to CAS??? wrote on the last page, rule 10.14 makes no difference between a provisional and a permanent suspension:
10.14.1 Prohibition against participation during Ineligibility or Provisional Suspension: (a) No Athlete or other Person who has been declared Ineligible or is subject to a Provisional Suspension may, during a period of Ineligibility or Provisional Suspension, participate in any capacity in a Competition or activity...
"activity" is rather broadly defined in the following, should you be interested in the details of a doping ban:
For example, subject to Rule 10.14.2 below, Ineligible Athletes cannot participate in a training camp, exhibition or practice organised by their Member or a club that is a member of that Member or that is funded by a governmental agency.
Clearly Shelby did not follow that rule. Thus, her ban should have started with the CAS judgment, not January 2021. Oh well, maybe someone will inform AIU/WA/WADA/CAS and have her ban extended to June 2025.
I could be wrong, but i would be surprised if you were not allowed to practice or do otherwise "normal" activities during a provisional suspension.
As Reported to CAS??? wrote on the last page, rule 10.14 makes no difference between a provisional and a permanent suspension:
10.14.1 Prohibition against participation during Ineligibility or Provisional Suspension: (a) No Athlete or other Person who has been declared Ineligible or is subject to a Provisional Suspension may, during a period of Ineligibility or Provisional Suspension, participate in any capacity in a Competition or activity...
"activity" is rather broadly defined in the following, should you be interested in the details of a doping ban:
For example, subject to Rule 10.14.2 below, Ineligible Athletes cannot participate in a training camp, exhibition or practice organised by their Member or a club that is a member of that Member or that is funded by a governmental agency.
Clearly Shelby did not follow that rule. Thus, her ban should have started with the CAS judgment, not January 2021. Oh well, maybe someone will inform AIU/WA/WADA/CAS and have her ban extended to June 2025.
I very much see your point and am sure such did not escape the knowledge of every party.
Is the answer within all the pre hearing “ appeals and such” that are referenced at the start of the CAS decision. Seemed all rather tricky but I did not pay much attention.
Shelby is not innocent. There is no possible way she can be considered "innocent" after everything that has happened. Whether or not she intentionally doped (I believe she DID intentionally dope) she absolutely without a shadow of a doubt lied about the burrito. And she absolutely without a shadow of a doubt is aware of where the nandy came from.
I'm just now reading this thread. What do you mean when you say there is no doubt she "lied about the burrito."
The CAS panel that ruled against her ruled that they believed she ate a burrito the night before. They didn't think it was the source of the nandro but they totally believed she ate a burrito.
Certainly, she's allowed to train and run TTs on her own, and I presume with other hobbyjoggers as well, even very very fast hobbyjoggers, as pacers. I would be happy to volunteer. For 200 meters.
I'd love to see Shelby run a 10K TT with some pacers, videotape it and have everyone post their GPS trace on Strava. If she broke the American record, I honestly don't see what difference it makes - to her - whether it was in sanctioned competition or not. That would be way more satisfying actually.
Really ???????, she could still be using PEDs now as she is banned from the sport, so they are not testing her, the times she runs are irrelevant
Certainly, she's allowed to train and run TTs on her own, and I presume with other hobbyjoggers as well, even very very fast hobbyjoggers, as pacers. I would be happy to volunteer. For 200 meters.
I'd love to see Shelby run a 10K TT with some pacers, videotape it and have everyone post their GPS trace on Strava. If she broke the American record, I honestly don't see what difference it makes - to her - whether it was in sanctioned competition or not. That would be way more satisfying actually.
Really ???????, she could still be using PEDs now as she is banned from the sport, so they are not testing her, the times she runs are irrelevant
read read posts prior to posting as stated many times she is on whereabouts.
Shelby is not innocent. There is no possible way she can be considered "innocent" after everything that has happened. Whether or not she intentionally doped (I believe she DID intentionally dope) she absolutely without a shadow of a doubt lied about the burrito. And she absolutely without a shadow of a doubt is aware of where the nandy came from.
I'm just now reading this thread. What do you mean when you say there is no doubt she "lied about the burrito."
The CAS panel that ruled against her ruled that they believed she ate a burrito the night before. They didn't think it was the source of the nandro but they totally believed she ate a burrito.
correct
people get confused, or not so, when they get her possible explanation seen as a statement of truth.
The Wada TD outlines boar meet and that what she had and thus a possible explanation of contamination via the food is not a lie.
And Wada got moaned at by CAS over the reporting delay effecting the ability to bring a defence but nothing is being said about SH’s delay.
I'm just now reading this thread. What do you mean when you say there is no doubt she "lied about the burrito."
The CAS panel that ruled against her ruled that they believed she ate a burrito the night before. They didn't think it was the source of the nandro but they totally believed she ate a burrito.
correct
people get confused, or not so, when they get her possible explanation seen as a statement of truth.
The Wada TD outlines boar meet and that what she had and thus a possible explanation of contamination via the food is not a lie.
And Wada got moaned at by CAS over the reporting delay effecting the ability to bring a defence but nothing is being said about SH’s delay.
i was going to observe the lenghts the website owners go to to apologise for drug cheats, but even more apologsts got there first. frightening.
people get confused, or not so, when they get her possible explanation seen as a statement of truth.
The Wada TD outlines boar meet and that what she had and thus a possible explanation of contamination via the food is not a lie.
And Wada got moaned at by CAS over the reporting delay effecting the ability to bring a defence but nothing is being said about SH’s delay.
i was going to observe the lenghts the website owners go to to apologise for drug cheats, but even more apologsts got there first. frightening.
shelby is a lying drug cheat.
So given on other posts you have shown yourselves clueless on the Wada Code I would be interested in what you say she said was a fact and new it was not true and how this is supported by the CAS decision?
i was going to observe the lenghts the website owners go to to apologise for drug cheats, but even more apologsts got there first. frightening.
shelby is a lying drug cheat.
So given on other posts you have shown yourselves clueless on the Wada Code I would be interested in what you say she said was a fact and new it was not true and how this is supported by the CAS decision?
