This is beyond unacceptable. The US needs to pull its skaters from this joke.
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Teebai wrote:
This is beyond unacceptable. The US needs to pull its skaters from this joke.
What! And ruin their lives.
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Great great great wrote:
why is this a thing? wrote:
If what they are fed in their house gives them an unfair advantage, why should they be allowed to compete against people who don’t have the same advantage? Being a minor doesn’t make PEDs ineffective.
Never said that they should be allowed to.
It is a question of punishment beyond disqualification in the event.
If you just out right banned minors from competition we would have tons of stories about X athlete that is really the best but isn't allowed to compete until their 18th birthday, and everyone would moan about how we MUST have the BEST at the games regardless of age!
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Armstronglivs wrote:
So we see that yet another Russian has doped. We also see there's always an excuse, no matter how far-fetched, and that the athlete in question can still compete. So much for "zero tolerance" of doping. Meanwhile, all the other doped athletes are congratulating themselves on not getting caught, and the fans cling to their fantasies that doping is a rarity confined to innocent 15 year-old girls.
As to what to do about the entire nation of athletes and their entire infrastructure of coaches and handlers, yes, some real punitive action needs to be taken. I’d ban every coach, trainer, and maybe every adult athlete. If you read about Valieva’s coach, she’s horrible. She has publically acknowledged that she doesn’t respect the doping rules, she drives the young women to anorexia and long term injury, skating them 12 hours per day, and then she tosses them aside once they hit puberty. Even her former Olympic champions do not have kind things to say. We don’t know anything about Valieva’s parents or who is overseeing her well being, but it seems unlikely she has any discretion about what “vitamins” she takes. Banning Valieva only serves to compound the abuse. I’m not sure about how to untangle this mess, but Valieva is a victim far more then perpetrator. Any comparisons of the 15 yr old Valieva and a 29 yr old Houlihan miss the mark.
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Wise Old Man wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
So we see that yet another Russian has doped. We also see there's always an excuse, no matter how far-fetched, and that the athlete in question can still compete. So much for "zero tolerance" of doping. Meanwhile, all the other doped athletes are congratulating themselves on not getting caught, and the fans cling to their fantasies that doping is a rarity confined to innocent 15 year-old girls.
As to what to do about the entire nation of athletes and their entire infrastructure of coaches and handlers, yes, some real punitive action needs to be taken. I’d ban every coach, trainer, and maybe every adult athlete. If you read about Valieva’s coach, she’s horrible. She has publically acknowledged that she doesn’t respect the doping rules, she drives the young women to anorexia and long term injury, skating them 12 hours per day, and then she tosses them aside once they hit puberty. Even her former Olympic champions do not have kind things to say. We don’t know anything about Valieva’s parents or who is overseeing her well being, but it seems unlikely she has any discretion about what “vitamins” she takes. Banning Valieva only serves to compound the abuse. I’m not sure about how to untangle this mess, but Valieva is a victim far more then perpetrator. Any comparisons of the 15 yr old Valieva and a 29 yr old Houlihan miss the mark.
Where did you get the bit about the coach not respecting the doping rules?
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ClubRunnah wrote:
Great great great wrote:
Never said that they should be allowed to.
It is a question of punishment beyond disqualification in the event.
If you just out right banned minors from competition we would have tons of stories about X athlete that is really the best but isn't allowed to compete until their 18th birthday, and everyone would moan about how we MUST have the BEST at the games regardless of age!
Sure, minors should be allowed to compete AND they should face the same rules as everyone else. It just doesn’t make sense to deem someone old enough to compete but too young for the rules to apply.
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ClubRunnah wrote:
Great great great wrote:
Never said that they should be allowed to.
It is a question of punishment beyond disqualification in the event.
If you just out right banned minors from competition we would have tons of stories about X athlete that is really the best but isn't allowed to compete until their 18th birthday, and everyone would moan about how we MUST have the BEST at the games regardless of age!
Raising the age to 18 would not stop the doping. Heck you could dope the heck out of a kid and then stop and still the effects of doping might be there.
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Great great great wrote:
Wise Old Man wrote:
As to what to do about the entire nation of athletes and their entire infrastructure of coaches and handlers, yes, some real punitive action needs to be taken. I’d ban every coach, trainer, and maybe every adult athlete. If you read about Valieva’s coach, she’s horrible. She has publically acknowledged that she doesn’t respect the doping rules, she drives the young women to anorexia and long term injury, skating them 12 hours per day, and then she tosses them aside once they hit puberty. Even her former Olympic champions do not have kind things to say. We don’t know anything about Valieva’s parents or who is overseeing her well being, but it seems unlikely she has any discretion about what “vitamins” she takes. Banning Valieva only serves to compound the abuse. I’m not sure about how to untangle this mess, but Valieva is a victim far more then perpetrator. Any comparisons of the 15 yr old Valieva and a 29 yr old Houlihan miss the mark.
Where did you get the bit about the coach not respecting the doping rules?
Evidence ?
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why is this a thing? wrote:
ClubRunnah wrote:
If you just out right banned minors from competition we would have tons of stories about X athlete that is really the best but isn't allowed to compete until their 18th birthday, and everyone would moan about how we MUST have the BEST at the games regardless of age!
Sure, minors should be allowed to compete AND they should face the same rules as everyone else. It just doesn’t make sense to deem someone old enough to compete but too young for the rules to apply.
It is the sanctions that should or should not apply.
How do you hold a 15 yr old responsible for what parents feed them?
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Great great great wrote:
Wise Old Man wrote:
As to what to do about the entire nation of athletes and their entire infrastructure of coaches and handlers, yes, some real punitive action needs to be taken. I’d ban every coach, trainer, and maybe every adult athlete. If you read about Valieva’s coach, she’s horrible. She has publically acknowledged that she doesn’t respect the doping rules, she drives the young women to anorexia and long term injury, skating them 12 hours per day, and then she tosses them aside once they hit puberty. Even her former Olympic champions do not have kind things to say. We don’t know anything about Valieva’s parents or who is overseeing her well being, but it seems unlikely she has any discretion about what “vitamins” she takes. Banning Valieva only serves to compound the abuse. I’m not sure about how to untangle this mess, but Valieva is a victim far more then perpetrator. Any comparisons of the 15 yr old Valieva and a 29 yr old Houlihan miss the mark.
Where did you get the bit about the coach not respecting the doping rules?
The coach is on the record saying meldonium is harmless and does not enhance performance and downplaying the effects of doping, especially in skating. She restricts the eating of her athletes and even limits their access to water. Think AlSal on “steroids” so to speak. No doubt Safesport would ban her in a second. She doesn’t simply exploit the corrupt desire of adult athletes to win, she literally preys on minors. All the while she has the explicit backing of Russian intelligence and really straight to Putin. There may be no way to spare Valieva and her peers and punish the coach and Russia (remember the likely other two medalists are young women coached by the same person!) but I wish there was. Valieva should seek asylum someplace. She is the greatest skater of all time, and this whole thing is a sports tragedy not of her doing.
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why is this a thing? wrote:
Sure, minors should be allowed to compete AND they should face the same rules as everyone else.
The same rules DO apply to everyone. Her age had nothing to do with the decision. The main reason was the test result came seven weeks late and she never had a chance to defend herself.
Athletes test positive all the time and in all cases, they are allowed to defend themselves. Russian athletes should be allowed to defend themselves just like American athletes. Same rules apply to everyone, just like you said.
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Bound4Glory wrote:
why is this a thing? wrote:
Sure, minors should be allowed to compete AND they should face the same rules as everyone else.
The same rules DO apply to everyone. Her age had nothing to do with the decision. The main reason was the test result came seven weeks late and she never had a chance to defend herself.
Athletes test positive all the time and in all cases, they are allowed to defend themselves. Russian athletes should be allowed to defend themselves just like American athletes. Same rules apply to everyone, just like you said.
Why did CAS make ref to her age then?
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Bound4Glory wrote:
why is this a thing? wrote:
Sure, minors should be allowed to compete AND they should face the same rules as everyone else.
The same rules DO apply to everyone. Her age had nothing to do with the decision. The main reason was the test result came seven weeks late and she never had a chance to defend herself.
Athletes test positive all the time and in all cases, they are allowed to defend themselves. Russian athletes should be allowed to defend themselves just like American athletes. Same rules apply to everyone, just like you said.
The rules apply to everyone, but the sanctions can be modified for minors. A thorough investigation of this case, if such a thing were possible, would almost certainly demonstrate that Valieva was unwittingly doped, and she would not dare to ask any questions about what she’s told to ingest and why. She’s under total control of the coach and the Russian system. Past athletes under this coach have spoken of not having adequate access to water while training and suffering abuse and derision if they were to say something.
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Wise Old Man wrote:
Great great great wrote:
Where did you get the bit about the coach not respecting the doping rules?
The coach is on the record saying meldonium is harmless and does not enhance performance and downplaying the effects of doping, especially in skating. She restricts the eating of her athletes and even limits their access to water. Think AlSal on “steroids” so to speak. No doubt Safesport would ban her in a second. She doesn’t simply exploit the corrupt desire of adult athletes to win, she literally preys on minors. All the while she has the explicit backing of Russian intelligence and really straight to Putin. There may be no way to spare Valieva and her peers and punish the coach and Russia (remember the likely other two medalists are young women coached by the same person!) but I wish there was. Valieva should seek asylum someplace. She is the greatest skater of all time, and this whole thing is a sports tragedy not of her doing.
So no evidence of not respecting the rules then.
I may think the motorway speed limits are wrong etc but that is no evidence that means I blatantly or otherwise break the limit.
I agree about Safe Sport may have the coach under focus if in the USA.
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Great great great wrote:
Wise Old Man wrote:
The coach is on the record saying meldonium is harmless and does not enhance performance and downplaying the effects of doping, especially in skating. She restricts the eating of her athletes and even limits their access to water. Think AlSal on “steroids” so to speak. No doubt Safesport would ban her in a second. She doesn’t simply exploit the corrupt desire of adult athletes to win, she literally preys on minors. All the while she has the explicit backing of Russian intelligence and really straight to Putin. There may be no way to spare Valieva and her peers and punish the coach and Russia (remember the likely other two medalists are young women coached by the same person!) but I wish there was. Valieva should seek asylum someplace. She is the greatest skater of all time, and this whole thing is a sports tragedy not of her doing.
So no evidence of not respecting the rules then.
I may think the motorway speed limits are wrong etc but that is no evidence that means I blatantly or otherwise break the limit.
I agree about Safe Sport may have the coach under focus if in the USA.
Yes, just public comments. I’m not aware of hard evidence, but in this case, if Valieva had a banned substance in her system, then I think it’s implausible the coach did not know. She literally monitors every sip of water and morsel of food eaten by her athletes.
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Great great great wrote:
Why did CAS make ref to her age then?
As someone under 16, she qualifies as a "protected person". That means the governing bodies are legally prohibited from releasing certain types of information about her. So, for this case, it means they could not release all of the information that went into their decision making process. You should consider that before making your judgment as well. There's more to the story then we know.
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Wise Old Man wrote:
Great great great wrote:
So no evidence of not respecting the rules then.
I may think the motorway speed limits are wrong etc but that is no evidence that means I blatantly or otherwise break the limit.
I agree about Safe Sport may have the coach under focus if in the USA.
Yes, just public comments. I’m not aware of hard evidence, but in this case, if Valieva had a banned substance in her system, then I think it’s implausible the coach did not know. She literally monitors every sip of water and morsel of food eaten by her athletes.
A bit like God then.In every house and every kitchen; literally.
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Bound4Glory wrote:
Great great great wrote:
Why did CAS make ref to her age then?
As someone under 16, she qualifies as a "protected person". That means the governing bodies are legally prohibited from releasing certain types of information about her. So, for this case, it means they could not release all of the information that went into their decision making process. You should consider that before making your judgment as well. There's more to the story then we know.
So what law do you refer to?
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It was the grandpa!? wrote:
Just as bad as a tainted burrito… she shared a cup with her grandpa.Why?
The drug was in the house or such can easily be proved. Unlike the burrito which was highly speculative.
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