this guy dropped a last mile time that many of our elite mile runners are having issues hitting indoors other than hocker and teare
he beat his mile pr in the 5k
hes only 2 seconds off DANIEL KOMEN'S best indoor time (probably the most shocking fact to me). Daniel Komen was a legit freak alien
Simply stunned by this. Even with doping. Stunned.
Running start? 😆
Fisher is full of run for sure. Want to see more races taken out hard, and athletes believing and red lining the whole way. I think those HSers performances are scaring the US pros straight.
Running fast is about fitness and natural ability. Anyone that redlines early in a race is going to crash and burn. Did Jeff Nelson scare Salazar and Chapa into running faster?
This may already exist, but I took the top 100 all time 1500 m times and summarized by the year of performance, and # of performances by year, and the performances in those years.
Formulas Time,Date,Year,Fastest Time,# of top Times 1,03:26.0,Hicham EL GUERROUJ,14-Sep-74,MARMAR,1,Stadio Olimpico, Roma (ITA),14-Jul-98,1998,1980,03:31.6,1 2,03:26.3,Bernard LAGAT,12-Dec-74,KENKEN,2,Bruxelles (BEL),24-Aug-0...
Simply stunned by this. Even with doping. Stunned.
It's easy to wake up and be stunned. But last night, I was thinking to myself, "Why didn't we see this coming?"Now hindsight is always 20-20
Here are 3 treasons why you shouldn't be stunned.
1) Justy Knight - 12:51.93. Did we really not thinking Fisher was at least as good as Justyn Knight? Knight was 7th in the Olympics (5k). Fisher was 5th (10k).
2) Indoors is basically as fast as outdoors. Maybe even better as you know the weather is going to be ideal and there is zero wind. Plus Jerry can set this up . He can't set up a DL.
3) Super shoes have changed EVERYTHING. We'll talk about this on the podcast but Jonathan Gault told me last night like several top top coaches were saying things to him like last night along the lines of, "How do you address it in your articles? Do you have to talk about the shoes in every single one of them?"So the top coaches know it's huge. I just in my head mentally think 3-4 seconds for a 1500/mile so that would be lik 9-12 for a 5000. So 12:53 is 13:00 low which isn't crazy. Rupp ran 13:01.
This is really the first normal year where we'd had super spikes en masse. The came out for a select few in 2019. Then Covid hit in 2020 and we still had Covid / the Olympics in 2021.
sorry but 3 to 4 seconds a mile is ABSURD.
If that was true - why aren't ALL runners setting 12 second PRS from their pre 2019 5k times? I'm not seeing that.
Why aren't our 27ish 10k runners running 24 second PRs deep into the 26 minute range?
shouldnt our best milers be running 4 seconds faster? Why hasn't Centro run a 346 mile(since he was at 350 ish shape pre 2019)?
These shoes only seem to help....a certain few runners. Perhaps there is a new EPO like drug on the market that we don't know about yet. I do not buy this shoe theory.
I don’t support this theory about the shoes taking off that much time per mile. ...
I could see maybe 1 or 2 seconds per mile from the shoes.
Why not? What are you going by? The road supershoes have been proven to have a larger effect. The shoe researcher guy (who rojo has talked to) was predicting big things for the superspikes once racing really got started again after pandemic slowdowns, and that's just what we are seeing. 3-4 seconds per mile (about 1+% time reduction) is what a lot of experts and coaches have been estimating, and it's only about half the benefit of the road supershoes (2+% time reduction because of greater stack height of superfoam).
We have seen an estimate from a pro, Nick Willis, that it shocked him when it took 2 seconds off what he expected to run for 600m in a workout, and he's finely tuned to pace.
It's easy to wake up and be stunned. But last night, I was thinking to myself, "Why didn't we see this coming?"Now hindsight is always 20-20
Here are 3 treasons why you shouldn't be stunned.
1) Justy Knight - 12:51.93. Did we really not thinking Fisher was at least as good as Justyn Knight? Knight was 7th in the Olympics (5k). Fisher was 5th (10k).
2) Indoors is basically as fast as outdoors. Maybe even better as you know the weather is going to be ideal and there is zero wind. Plus Jerry can set this up . He can't set up a DL.
3) Super shoes have changed EVERYTHING. We'll talk about this on the podcast but Jonathan Gault told me last night like several top top coaches were saying things to him like last night along the lines of, "How do you address it in your articles? Do you have to talk about the shoes in every single one of them?"So the top coaches know it's huge. I just in my head mentally think 3-4 seconds for a 1500/mile so that would be lik 9-12 for a 5000. So 12:53 is 13:00 low which isn't crazy. Rupp ran 13:01.
This is really the first normal year where we'd had super spikes en masse. The came out for a select few in 2019. Then Covid hit in 2020 and we still had Covid / the Olympics in 2021.
sorry but 3 to 4 seconds a mile is ABSURD.
If that was true - why aren't ALL runners setting 12 second PRS from their pre 2019 5k times? I'm not seeing that.
Why aren't our 27ish 10k runners running 24 second PRs deep into the 26 minute range?
shouldnt our best milers be running 4 seconds faster? Why hasn't Centro run a 346 mile(since he was at 350 ish shape pre 2019)?
These shoes only seem to help....a certain few runners. Perhaps there is a new EPO like drug on the market that we don't know about yet. I do not buy this shoe theory.
Sure, like the road supershoes, the benefit will vary runner to runner. The study that gave the Vaporfly 4% to its name had benefits vary from something like 1% to 6+% depending on the runner subject, and you'd expect a variance to exist for the superspikes too. But we will see the time drops that are talking about. We are seeing them in this meet already, and previous meets this winter and last summer. Don't forget, we are coming out of a pandemic, when racing has been limited. How many time trial 10,000s have there been in the past couple years? Ones I can think of produced WRs.
Ive always sort of held the east africans to a different standard. I got excited when ritz went sub 13, when solinsky went sub 27, during alan webb's AR.....but I knew deep down this was childs play compared to the africans. At best, I expected the US to remain far back in terms of PRs and hope for a lucky medal or two in the olympics due to tactics/weather. Figured this would never change.
now, we potentially have an american that isn't an african immigrant running bekele, komen, geb like times?
im stunned.
Perhaps that was part of the problem. Learned helplessness. We can’t compete at that level so why even try. Everyone is genetically superior and on peds, we’re not good enough.
Even Grants post race interview. He didn’t think he would run that fast and thinks the track helped his time. Jerry needs to get in his head and get him to BELIEVE IN HIMSELF!
Self-belief is extraordinarily important, but everyone has their own inner voice, and it's not always obvious what that inner voice is like to us on the outside. I'm sure Fisher believes in himself plenty. You have to, at that level, and to run that fast.
Has anybody asked these guys if they are just wearing the Dragonfly that they had last season? The times being dropped by BTC athletes are huge, Fisher just dropped his PB by nearly 10 seconds, a time which he also set in a perfect TT last year. That's alot over 5k. I'd at least be asking if they have access to a 2nd generation Dragonfly. The original Dragonfly is now nearly three years old, you'd expect a new iteration by now - the Next% came out around 2 years after the OG Vaporfly
To be clear to the downvoters, I support wearing the superspikes and supershoes, and I give praise to fast performances like Fisher's and the others who ran outstanding times. The supershoes and superspikes do not need to dominate the conversation. But I also acknowledge that the supershoes and superspikes produce substantially faster times. So when the conversation goes into historical time comparisons, like they always do, they need to be brought up.
Is Fisher's 12:53 better than Rupp's 13:01? I honestly don't think any of us can evaluate that fairly. There isn't a single conversion, since people get different benefits, but it's in the range of roughly equivalent based on what people have been observing. The best answer would probably be they are not substantially different within the error bars.
I'd like you to address HOW super spikes would work over every other spike, and yield incredible times, with support other than conjecture. These aren't super shoes like Vaporflys with foam stacks the height of the Empire State Building. And you can't say carbon plate, because those already existed before.
And if anyone has a link to an article discussing this with actual data and facts, I'd honestly be happy to read it, because the "super shoe" commentary drives me batty. People are supposing everything from no improvement to completely unrealistic amounts of time, based on essentially nothing.
I don’t support this theory about the shoes taking off that much time per mile. ...
I could see maybe 1 or 2 seconds per mile from the shoes.
The road supershoes have been proven to have a larger effect.
There's a pretty distinct difference (like several dozen mm of foam) between the road shoes and spikes, and there's yet to be a convincing explanation that I know of (with actual facts), why the physics of super-high road shoe stacks would apply to track spikes, even if the spikes had carbon and the same foam. And a bunch of dudes saying "yeah, it's gotta have a big effect, because guys are breaking records" is kinda weak.
I can’t imagine a professional runner would be scared by a result like this. Maybe I’m ignorant, but they all train so hard that I picture their response either like a) ‘I guess I’m due too’ or b) F that guy, if he can do it, so can I. It has to be exciting for that whole group when someone pops off like this
It’s a new age. Fisher is clean, I’ll bet anything, but the shoes and the tracks are juiced. Fisher in his typical honest fashion admitted as much. Fisher is awesome, a joy to watch, but let’s not kid ourselves. If Cheptegei was running tonight he might have run 12:30. That’s not a knock on Fisher, just reality.
Cheptegei lost to Ahmed badly just 7 months ago in Italy. Fisher just beat Ahmed.
Cheptegei crushed Ahmed easily just 6 months ago in Japan. Guess you forgot about that.
Fisher is a huge talent and will likely break 12:50, but Cheptegei is on another planet. Suggesting otherwise is just disrespectful.
Rupp certainly didn’t have the same amount or quality of competition in his AR attempt that Fisher had last night, I’ll give that to you. But objectively speaking yes this new record is another echelon of great. I give more weight to the BU track surface being ridiculously fast than I do to the shoes
Rupp certainly didn’t have the same amount or quality of competition in his AR attempt that Fisher had last night, I’ll give that to you. But objectively speaking yes this new record is another echelon of great. I give more weight to the BU track surface being ridiculously fast than I do to the shoes
In the post race interview by JG, Fisher himself referenced the track. Yes, he ran fast and handily beat a quality field, but the absolute time has to be viewed in this context. In XC we all agree that it’s nearly impossible to compare times across different venues, but we hold track times to be an absolute standard. I’m afraid we are entering an era in both indoor and even outdoor track where the venue will be part of the conversation. You know, so and so ran X, but that was at BU or Tokyo….so that’s only worth Y at Eugene….. I wish there were detailed rules regarding track construction that would remove any meaningful differences.
