There is LITERALLY no other 19-year old American woman alive right now who can do what Athing Mu just did today for 1409 meters

Nothing about her Millrose performance shows that she will be a world-class 1500/miler like she is as a 400/800 runner - which has been the argument on these threads. Millrose showed that despite being an Olympic champion over the 800m she was completely out of her depth at a good national level over the longer distance. Mu may have learned a lesson at Millrose but the fantasists on this board haven't.

zzztttzzz wrote:

What's this laughable try to ridicule this "1409m race"? It was a Mile and she quit with one lap to go. And now? Most natural thing to predict what she maybe can run for 1500m right now. Around 4:10 seems very likely. And that's extremely good for a sub 50 400m runner. And, yes, Mu is under 20 years old. If someone under 20 doesn't belong to the sub 20 age category just says a lot about the athletics governing body.

I didn't start the ridiculous isolation of a 1409 section of a mile race, I just made rightly fun of it. Obviously Osika and Hull and also others further behind ran more defensively for the first 1200m and closed faster. Therefore it is not at all irrelevant if everyone is racing 1400 or if someone drops out of a mile race. This seems so obvious that I am puzzled you take offense at my making a harmless joke out of it.

By ignoring the age-long age group rules you don't add to your credibility and knowledge of athletics either.

Armstronglivs wrote:

Someone should have told her a mile has 4 quarters, not just 3.

+1

zzztttzzz wrote:

It was a curagious attempt from Mu.

Holy hell. So we are giving out participation trophies to Olympic champions?

She is under 20 and could be compared to others who are under 20. This age rule obviously is stupid.

I don't care if you started this 1409m issue - as you said, you made fun of it. Rightly? It's stupid, but just continue.

No, it's not irrelevant. And the point? She might have finished - what? 10th? I don't care. She showed good potential over a Mile (and more so over 1500m). As a sub 50 400m runner.

Can you please name another athlete who ever could have done this?

As 1409 races are so rare, there is probably none. And the few 400/800m runners about as fast as Mu didn't race the 1500m either. I don't know about 1200m relay legs but these are usually rarely run by the 400/800 types either.

I conceded before the race (recall that I was more in the middle with an optimistic 4:25-29 prediction) that Mu might become the best 400/800m runner in the 1500/mile. But that she wouldn't become close to world class at both 400m and 1500m at the same time because nobody else in history did.

A 4:25 or faster performance might have had be revisiting this. But not DNF and unlike others I am wary about the 1200 or 1400 mark as a data point.

None of you want to discuss the fact that her 1500 at 18 years old was faster than people like Schweizer, Houlihan, Purrier and a bunch of 4:00 Americans. So if we had this conversation each time when they ran a 1500 as a U20 athlete, you all would have ridiculed us for predicting a future sub 4 1500.

everyone's dad wrote:

None of you want to discuss the fact that her 1500 at 18 years old was faster than people like Schweizer, Houlihan, Purrier and a bunch of 4:00 Americans. So if we had this conversation each time when they ran a 1500 as a U20 athlete, you all would have ridiculed us for predicting a future sub 4 1500.

That doesn't matter. Off the top of my head, does S. Houlihan have the fastest F.A.T. 400m of the three with a 55.xx? Compare A. Mu to Jearl Miles-Clark and Jarmila Kratchovilova. It makes sense to compare A. Mu to sub-50 400m athletes, not women whom are 1500m plus types. The women you mentioned, no doubt increased their mileage and trained in other ways like 1500m plus athletes. Hopefully A. Mu's coach will not ground her into hamburger training A. Mu in that manner.

everyone's dad wrote:

None of you want to discuss the fact that her 1500 at 18 years old was faster than people like Schweizer, Houlihan, Purrier and a bunch of 4:00 Americans. So if we had this conversation each time when they ran a 1500 as a U20 athlete, you all would have ridiculed us for predicting a future sub 4 1500.

I answered this twice already, maybe in another thread. Schweizer or Purrier were not world class 400/800m runners at 18-19, in fact they weren't close to world class in any event at 20.

It is completely irrelevant for Mu's potential what these other athletes ran. The interesting group for comparisons is NOT other 19 year old Americans but other sub 50 sub 1:56 (or maybe even sub 52 sub 1:57) runners regardless of age and nationality.

Please do. Who are these sub 50 400 meter runners that ran 4:16 for 1500 at 18 years old? What is their lifetime PR in the 1500?

Jo72 wrote:

As 1409 races are so rare, there is probably none. And the few 400/800m runners about as fast as Mu didn't race the 1500m either.

Do you really think you sound funny? For your info: you don't do so. More like a typical letsrun troll. I'm waiting for your next great 1409 joke.

Do you think some of those few could have run as fast as Mu obviously can?

Mu ran a distance far from her best against competition she definitely was well awere she might loose to some. But she tried and ran a pace above her current abilities. Mayn posters here seem to be extremely happy that she failed.

She is under 20 years and definitely wasn't prepared properly for this event. I wait for her next races over 1500/Mile.

letsdrum wrote:

Jo72 wrote:

As 1409 races are so rare, there is probably none. And the few 400/800m runners about as fast as Mu didn't race the 1500m either.

Do you really think you sound funny? For your info: you don't do so. More like a typical letsrun troll. I'm waiting for your next great 1409 joke.

Do you think some of those few could have run as fast as Mu obviously can?

Mu ran a distance far from her best against competition she definitely was well awere she might loose to some. But she tried and ran a pace above her current abilities. Mayn posters here seem to be extremely happy that she failed.

She is under 20 years and definitely wasn't prepared properly for this event.I wait for her next races over 1500/Mile.

The gist of your post: You want A. Mu to continue racing 1500m &/or one mile. By the gist of your post, you want A. Mu to properly train for 1500m &/or one mile in the future.

Post a training program for a 400m/800m athlete that will give her a high degree of probability of being a 1500m gold medalist. You would agree, if A. Mu trains to be a possible elite 1500m athlete, she will no longer train to be an elite 400m/800m athlete.

No such athlete as an elite 400m/800m/1500m elite athlete.

Of course, keep C. Semenya out of this discussion.

letsdrum wrote:

Jo72 wrote:

As 1409 races are so rare, there is probably none. And the few 400/800m runners about as fast as Mu didn't race the 1500m either.

Do you really think you sound funny? For your info: you don't do so. More like a typical letsrun troll. I'm waiting for your next great 1409 joke.

Do you think some of those few could have run as fast as Mu obviously can?

Mu ran a distance far from her best against competition she definitely was well awere she might loose to some. But she tried and ran a pace above her current abilities. Mayn posters here seem to be extremely happy that she failed.

She is under 20 years and definitely wasn't prepared properly for this event.I wait for her next races over 1500/Mile.

The gist of your post: You want A. Mu to continue racing 1500m &/or one mile. By the gist of your post, you want A. Mu to properly train for 1500m &/or one mile in the future.

Post a training program for a 400m/800m athlete that will give her a high degree of probability of being a 1500m gold medalist. You would agree, if A. Mu trains to be a possible elite 1500m athlete, she will no longer train to be an elite 400m/800m athlete.

No such athlete as an elite 400m/800m/1500m elite athlete.

Of course, keep C. Semenya out of this discussion.

I have strong arms wrote:

Please do. Who are these sub 50 400 meter runners that ran 4:16 for 1500 at 18 years old? What is their lifetime PR in the 1500?

As rehearsed a dozen times there are basically no data (at least not at the easily accessible WA side) for this because most 400/800 never run the 1500m. Quirot ran 4:13 at 34. But this does not mean that 4:16 is particularly auspicious. If there are no other data, it remains rather meaningless. It does not change that Mu is a 400/800 type and that there never was a 400/800 type world class in the 1500m, neither male nor female.

Above all, I thought this was about getting interesting *new* information from the 1409 DNF race. We had the 4:16 since last April without half a dozen thread sprouting about Mu becoming likely world class in the 1500m.

How much better than 4:16 is the DNF, about 4:10 was said elsewhere. Fair enough, seems reasonable. Still doesn't mean that 4:00 or faster is likely, cf. 600m guy's remarks. Mu MIGHT prove us wrong but she clearly hasn't done yet and the DNF changes very little about that.

For sure *you* can get new information *from* *this* "1409 DNF race" (for your info: it was a Mile race): that Athing Mu *in* her current form can run significantly faster over 1500m than her PB. How fast? Very likely under 4:10. How much faster? Just speculation. But since her intention was not to quit with one lap to go (OK, you might differ) I think closer to 4:08 seems more appropriate. But even 4:08 is far from world class. But very respectable - even 4:10. I'm waiting for your names of great 400m/800m athletes you THINK they could have done something similar over 1500m. I think Mu will get close to 4:00 within the next two years and I think no athlete in history has had the same potential from 400m to 1500m as Mu. But since there is no actual data to prove this you should just continue to ridicule Mu's perfomance.

What a remarkable forum.

You are a remarkable twister of words. Had you followed the last week you would have noticed the enthusiastic predictions for Mu from winning in sub 4:20 to at least around 4:25-27 at worst ON SATURDAY.

DNF is disappointing. For me as well. Because a 4:28 or 4:32 would hopefully shut up the fans who predicted these much better times, at least for a while.

But now to blame me for making fun of these fanboys who try to twist a DNF into a remarkable achievement with nonsense about 1409 races etc. is really cheeky. I have not made any fun of Mu, or show me where.

But it's impossible not to make fun of the length to which some people here have gone to turn a DNF into something great, instead of admitting that they were mostly catastrophically wrong in their predictions for THE WANAMAKER MILE.

For this Jan 29th 2022 performance, because this was *what the predictions were about*. Not later this season, not in 3 years with changed training. Not in comparisons to some random US 19 yo college mile runner. But for Millrose games and the women's mile field.

600yd/600m man wrote:

The gist of your post: You want A. Mu to continue racing 1500m &/or one mile. By the gist of your post, you want A. Mu to properly train for 1500m &/or one mile in the future.

You know the "gist" of my post?

If she runs her next race over 1500m (I think she should try this before another Mile) I'm interested about her result. And now?

Jo72 wrote:

By ignoring the age-long age group rules you don't add to your credibility and knowledge of athletics either.

I don't ignore them. But they are stupid.

It's possible that at the age of 19 years and 1 day you are too old to compete.

It's possible that at the age of 19 years and 364 days you are OK to compete.

Great rule.

It is all relative. The times would all be much faster if they used your cutoff.