There is LITERALLY no other 19-year old American woman alive right now who can do what Athing Mu just did today for 1409 meters

Spot on Armstronglivs.

The greatest evidence that something can be done is if another person has done it. And one thing that Mu has going for herself is belief in herself. She took action based on that belief.

Since she's already set up a very strong foundation of belief, she found it easy to take action for 1409 metres of that goal.

Mu ran a faster pace than her previous attempts at the mile. Acknowledging her own progress is the catalyst for what will be an exponential increase in superior results this summer.

It's an interesting angle and does put the performance in perspective. Well thought out.

The annoying pedant in me though wants to point out that she very well might not have had an 18s 100 in her. Before she stopped her 100m splits were 16.4, 16.9, 18.0. She was tying up hard.

But yes, if the race has been paced at 67s instead of 64s she would have had a shot at breaking 4:10 for the 1500.

Someone should have told her a mile has 4 quarters, not just 3.

Of course there are plenty of young runners who can go one better than her, which is finish the race.

This must count as one of the most ridiculous moving of goalposts ever seen... :D

First, of all, Mu is 20 for all athletic evaluation purposes (age at Dec 31st of current year), she is not in the under 20 competing category.

Secondly, since when are *current* US college sophomores the relevant group of comparison for an Olympic champion running with the best of the world in major meets. This seems a very low bar...

Why not take ethiopian runners at 19-20? Or historically strong 1500m performers at 17-20 like Budd (3:59 at 19), Cain (4:03 at 17), Tsegay (4:02 at 17), Kipyegon (3:56 at 19), Efraimson (4:03 at 18) Klosterhalfen (3:58 at 20)? At a reasonable level to compare Mu with, sub 4:10 1500m for someone 19-20 is not that special at all.

4:09 1500m or ca. 4:29 mile is also roughly what most of the "doubters" (I myself even expected 4:25-27 because I didn't think she would be so badly prepared for proper pacing) in the thread thought Mu could run. (Rogers ran 4:29 mile last year.) This is a long way from sub 4:25 or challenging Purrier for the win in sub 4:20 (as has been claimed in that thread).

You start off by stating he was moving goal posts then move more goal posts. Which of the women you mentioned ran sub 50 400 and won Olympic gold within the same calendar year as their 1500 result?

Is this the new thing? Celebrate failures? Regardless of how amazing Mu is, she failed. She couldn’t hack it in the race and that’s life. She’ll move on, break some world records later on and all will be good. But should Purrier be getting the glory now? She (wo)manhandled the whole field and showed what a beast she is. She should be getting the talk.

Same crap happened with Biles in the Olympics. She quits and every story is about how she is so strong for talking about her mental problems. But no one talks about what’s her name that went out and actually won the damn competition.

It’s going to be more profitable now for a runner to quit and smile about it then actually run fast and win.

None did. Who claimed they did? The whole point was that 400/800 types cannot run strong 1500/miles. And that the fanboys claimed Mu was an exception to that, the first in the history or athletics.

The daring prediction in the thread was that Mu breaks easily 4:30, likely runs at least around 4:25 and possibly challenges for a top 3 position around 4:20. Almost nobody denied that she could scratch a few seconds from an unimpressive 4:38. Most people expected her to dip unter 4:30. Because this would have been pretty good but not very special at all as other speed based runners who are a second slower at 800m and much slower at 400m like Rogers have run such marks.

The whole point of the fanboys was that Mu would run an unprecedented mile time for a 400/800m runner, at least close to milers who made the olympics, such as Hull, or better challenging Purrier and the AR. I was fooled to some extent myself and expected around 4:25-27 because I thought she would not enter such a prestigious race otherwise.

Now scratching together an extrapolation from quitting at 1409 m to 1500m and claiming that 4:09 would be special in any way because other US 20 yo cannot do it, is beyond ridiculous. It was not what the debate before was about and doesn't merit any further replies.

1409m? I'm pretty sure she dropped out at the bell.

portsea57 wrote:

1409m? I'm pretty sure she dropped out at the bell.

1609-200 = 1409

The 100 meters before she dropped took her over 18 seconds. She saved herself running a 40 second final 200 and 4:30 mile.

Smart move and I don’t see any issues with her doing that.

high school xc coach wrote:

portsea57 wrote:

1409m? I'm pretty sure she dropped out at the bell.

1609-200 = 1409

I was thinking 1500m.

What it does mean, undoubtedly, is that she was absolutely shattered if she couldn't run another 200m. Some people have tried to put a positive slant on Mu's decision to drop out but I see it as being similar to when a boxer is pulled out of a fight to prevent any real damage. Boxers like that don't usually go on to achieve much.

Athing fans should be concerned because I can't see Mu taking anything positive from this race. Except, that she can maybe now really forget the longer distances and concentrate on her real strengths.

He didn't move the goalposts. He directed the argument to the relevant goalposts, of runners of the same age, same distance and class. Regardless of Mu's achievements over 400 and 800, she is not a longer event competitor - as she has just shown.

msndjjxjnnnn wrote:

The 100 meters before she dropped took her over 18 seconds. She saved herself running a 40 second final 200 and 4:30 mile.

Smart move and I don’t see any issues with her doing that.

She save herself the ignominy of being passed by everybody in the last lap, staggering over the line and collapsing.

Jo72 wrote:

The whole point was that 400/800 types cannot run strong 1500/miles. And that the fanboys claimed Mu was an exception to that, the first in the history or athletics.

Everyone has different perspectives. As a person who thought she could run 4:26-4:27, I saw more potential in the race she ran yesterday than if she were to run a properly paced 4:27.

Again, for a person who ran 48.3r August, to be 1-2s behind the American record in the mile at a little more then 3/4 on the race is unprecedented.

Also, she switched to this race last minute, it’s not like she was training all winter to run a fast mile.

So if you don’t think she’s the exception, let me ask this: do you think Mu, at 19, in a sprint-based training group, ever runs gets the strength to run the final 400m?

If the answer is yes — we are still looking at a 400/800 type running sub 4:00.

Mu IS the exception, still. This was just not the race she proved it to you.

I don't see the DNF as a big deal. We don't know why she stepped off. It's possible she had a nagging injury and the extra distance was too much for it. I've DNFd a race when I thought that finishing might result in an injury.

It's easy to say she quit, but we don't know what her and her coach's goals were for the race. It might have been "hang with the leaders as long as possible, but if you can't hang, don't worry about it." As a 800m runner myself, 1409 meters is a LONG way past 800 meters. Mu is a very rare talent, being a 400/800 runner. She could potentially win gold in the 400 and 800 in the next Olympics. I don't think that has ever been done by a woman. The mile can wait until 2028 or 2032.

In short, it was a learning experience to race against some of the best milers in the world. It lets her know where she stands as a 19-year-old miler. I commend her for stepping up to test herself at the longer distance and I don't have a problem with the DNF.

I’m sure her competitors would have a bit more respect for Mu than some of the guys on this board.

Shannon Osika, a 4:00 1500m runner, ran a mile PR yesterday. She was behind Mu with 250m to go. Do you think she would in a post race interview say she thinks Mu has no potential at the 1500, or that she thinks Mu can compete?

The only thing she proved is that she is a quitter.

pb pb wrote:

I’m sure her competitors would have a bit more respect for Mu than some of the guys on this board.

Shannon Osika, a 4:00 1500m runner, ran a mile PR yesterday. She was behind Mu with 250m to go. Do you think she would in a post race interview say she thinks Mu has no potential at the 1500, or that she thinks Mu can compete?

Does she have to, or does she let the results speak for themselves?