Wow. Every professional runner should sue their coach after a few running injuries because the injuries were caused from the coach making them run. No running, no running injuries. Your point is ridiculous.
Wow. Every professional runner should sue their coach after a few running injuries because the injuries were caused from the coach making them run. No running, no running injuries. Your point is ridiculous.
I wonder if he doped her,as well?its a fair bet everyone who trained under him was on EPO.
How is she able to file lawsuit now? I'm not from Oregon, but, where I am these sorts of actions would have a two year limitation period. All of these things happened a long time ago. I mean, her New York times article was two years ago.
Any lawyers from Oregon (or the US who can look a their statutes) know what the limitation period is there?
Also - if she was a minor when she first went to NOP, has she named her parents in the law suit?
SDSU Aztec wrote:
Cain's case is unique and posters claiming a win for her will open the door for other athletes because their feelings were hurt, is nonsense.
I don't know enough about the circumstances to opine. However, I do think a positive of this is particular situation is
that most coaches and programs, both professional and at the university level, now defer to registered dietitians to address the issues that are at the heart of this matter.
you had me at meat tornado wrote:
SDSU Aztec wrote:
Cain's case is unique and posters claiming a win for her will open the door for other athletes because their feelings were hurt, is nonsense.
I don't know enough about the circumstances to opine. However, I do think a positive of this is particular situation is
that most coaches and programs, both professional and at the university level, now defer to registered dietitians to address the issues that are at the heart of this matter.
What’s ‘at the heart of the matter’ is a matter of opinion. In Al’s opinion, getting results is it.
This is extremely frivolous. The problem with this type of lawsuit, alleging vague emotional abuse, is that it diminishes the experience of people who were actually abused. Terrible look for her.
Vacilated wrote:
SDSU Aztec wrote:
No, its not. There was a minimum weight her body was capable of achieving and she shouldn't have been pushed to being below that level. Attempting to be a world class runner should not require 5 stress fractures.
At her training level, she would have needed about 3000 calories. If Salazar put her on a diet of 1500 calories so she would look like Klosterhalfen, he should be sued.
If her accusations are true, there is absolutely no way Scumacher or Ritz would do the same thing. Houlihan is not thin and I seriously doubt Schumacher was pushing her to lose weight. Her powering down monster burritos makes me think she was on an unrestricted diet.
You know nothing of what her minimum weight should have been but I’ll bet it was pretty clear to her coach and he did his job pushing her towards that. Doing it in front of the team is less personal and more business than any other possible way. Not sure what you guys expected Al to do when Mary claimed she was cutting herself. Probably just seemed like immature teenage angst and in the long run that proved true.
Salazar ruined an elite 800m-1500m talent. Mary C's family should have done research on Salazar. Salazar had an ego. He believed he knew how to coach anyone, 800m to ultras. Salazar deep down in his bones knew he had no clue how to coach 800m athletes, gave up on developing Mary Cain's 800m talent, immediately trained Mary Cain to be a 1500m-5000m athlete. This site is mostly current or former hs JV XC runners and current or former D-3 JV XC runners. Most posters on this site enjoy or enjoyed XC training and you cannot understand why that was part of the entire process in ruining Mary Cain, a young 800m talent. A talent who should have been treated like a female Abdi Bile. Bile was an 800m athlete in his teens and early twenties who switched to 1500m in his mid-twenties. THAT is how Mary Cain's training and racing should have progressed. If Mary Cain had achieved at 1500m what Abdi Bile achieved, would Cain sue Salazar? We know the likely answer. Salazar ruined an elite teenage 800m athlete. There is a price to be paid for that. Too many of you are worrying about the smallest details. Salazar screwed up. Screwing up means one then pays a price.
footy wrote:
Wow. Every professional runner should sue their coach after a few running injuries because the injuries were caused from the coach making them run. No running, no running injuries. Your point is ridiculous.
You seem to be oblivious to the issue. Her injuries were not caused by Salazar making her run. If that was true, there would have been no lawsuit or even a story by Cain. Most runners don't suffer 5 stress fractures within a short period of time so maybe there's more to this than you think.
In the trial, there will be testimony and applicable documentation. Juries generally make the right decision and often reject lawsuits. Well see happens but just "She got injured because Al had her train" is not going to save the day.
^ This. Plus, the nothing-to-see-here crowd should remember that large parts of her 2019 claims were confirmed by several NOPers, and that SafeSports' lengthy investigation resulted in a lifetime ban for Salazar for sexual and emotional misconduct.
SDSU Aztec wrote:
Vacilated wrote:
Yes, to lose the excess weight keeping her from optimal performance. Part of being (or attempting to be) a world class runner. Not necessarily the picture of health….is this all news to you???
No, its not. There was a minimum weight her body was capable of achieving and she shouldn't have been pushed to being below that level. Attempting to be a world class runner should not require 5 stress fractures.
At her training level, she would have needed about 3000 calories. If Salazar put her on a diet of 1500 calories so she would look like Klosterhalfen, he should be sued.
If her accusations are true, there is absolutely no way Scumacher or Ritz would do the same thing. Houlihan is not thin and I seriously doubt Schumacher was pushing her to lose weight. Her powering down monster burritos makes me think she was on an unrestricted diet.
First of all do you have evidence that Salazaar put her on a 1500 calorie a day diet? If he did that is just flat out bad coaching and I don't know what all the nutritionists at Nike are doing because anyone who knows anything about running or nutrition 101 knows an 18 year old training at a pro level cannot live off that.
But as some of your assertions about it being warranted for her to sue because she had injuries related to the coaching and diet I do not agree. Get ready for pandora's box to be opened on the running world. Several girls had issues like this on my college team at various points. I'd say at least a third of the girls who took running seriously on my team went through some phase where everyone kind of grimaced and was like, "is she eating enough?" and I never saw or heard of anything my coaches did that I would classify as remotely inappropriate. Women's running is a messy sport on some levels because of the reality that you are dealing with young women who are under a lot of pressure related to athletics at the same time there is a lot of maturity and insecurity issues. Combine that with the fact that you do need to be in a certain body condition to perform. This bodyweight issue is not as black and white as a lot of people make it and if we start down this road honestly half the college coaches in the US could have lawsuits launched against them. If some of the allegations Cain launches are true, which I seriously question, I think it makes Salazaar a bad coach, and unfit to coach women, but a $20 million dollar lawsuit is extremely frivoulous.
Thewholeofthemoon wrote:
While I am not generally a fan of lawsuits or woke culture, Mary Cain's complaints against Salazar are far different than being simply encouraged/told to lose weight. If what Mary Cain says is true then:
1. She was 5'7 and weighed 121 lbs (which is in fact a healthy weight for an elite female mid distance runner) and Alberto insisted to a teenage girl that she arbitrarily get down to 113 lbs.
2. Alberto did this by weighing her in front of older teammates (both make and female) on repeated occasions while telling her that her butt and boobs were too large. Again, a man in his 50s with a huge amount of power and prestige in the sport of track and field was telling this to a teenage girl in front of other much older professional athletes.
3. Darren Treasure was in fact a fraud and was not a licensed psychologist/mental health worker. He allegedly knew that Mary Cain was severely depressed, beginning to develop eating disorders, and was cutting herself. He did nothing to help her, and instead broke counselor patient privilege by divulging this information to Alberto and other coaches.
4. Mary Cain told Alberto and another coach that she was having suicidal thoughts and that she was cutting herself and they just told her to go to bed.
5. Alberto also tried to prescribe her diuretics for weight loss which were banned by USADA
Regardless of whether or not Mary Cain would have ever become a world class athlete is irrelevent. This is far different than a coach being a bit insensitive by asking an athlete to lose some weight in too blunt of a manner, or simply working her into overtraining. She had 5 stress fractures and missed her period for three years!
While all of this is awful, doesn't meet the meet the legal standard.
600yd/600m man wrote:
Vacilated wrote:
You know nothing of what her minimum weight should have been but I’ll bet it was pretty clear to her coach and he did his job pushing her towards that. Doing it in front of the team is less personal and more business than any other possible way. Not sure what you guys expected Al to do when Mary claimed she was cutting herself. Probably just seemed like immature teenage angst and in the long run that proved true.
Salazar ruined an elite 800m-1500m talent. Mary C's family should have done research on Salazar. Salazar had an ego. He believed he knew how to coach anyone, 800m to ultras. Salazar deep down in his bones knew he had no clue how to coach 800m athletes, gave up on developing Mary Cain's 800m talent, immediately trained Mary Cain to be a 1500m-5000m athlete. This site is mostly current or former hs JV XC runners and current or former D-3 JV XC runners. Most posters on this site enjoy or enjoyed XC training and you cannot understand why that was part of the entire process in ruining Mary Cain, a young 800m talent. A talent who should have been treated like a female Abdi Bile. Bile was an 800m athlete in his teens and early twenties who switched to 1500m in his mid-twenties. THAT is how Mary Cain's training and racing should have progressed. If Mary Cain had achieved at 1500m what Abdi Bile achieved, would Cain sue Salazar? We know the likely answer. Salazar ruined an elite teenage 800m athlete. There is a price to be paid for that. Too many of you are worrying about the smallest details. Salazar screwed up. Screwing up means one then pays a price.
An attempt to make this the basis of her case will result in a decision for the defendant(s).
This whole thread is absolutely disgusting. A bunch of loser men complaining because they thing emotional abuse is ok. Idiots talking about manchildren throwing trash cans, the militia and a woman daring to fight back against an abusive male.......... LOTS of abusers making excuses in here today. It is becoming more and more obvious just how disgusting and pathetic the f'ing losers are on this board. One troll even called fighting against abuse woke..... wtf
SDSU Aztec wrote:
footy wrote:
Wow. Every professional runner should sue their coach after a few running injuries because the injuries were caused from the coach making them run. No running, no running injuries. Your point is ridiculous.
You seem to be oblivious to the issue. Her injuries were not caused by Salazar making her run. If that was true, there would have been no lawsuit or even a story by Cain. Most runners don't suffer 5 stress fractures within a short period of time so maybe there's more to this than you think.
In the trial, there will be testimony and applicable documentation. Juries generally make the right decision and often reject lawsuits. Well see happens but just "She got injured because Al had her train" is not going to save the day.
Salazar can be a terrible coach and yet not liable in a lawsuit against him. Anyone can sue I guess but there will be a deep dive into what responsibility the plaintiff(s) had/have in the situation. It may be one that the plaintiff will not wish to explore particularly if she is emotionally fragile as it may appear to be.
jeff tallon wrote:
I wonder if he doped her,as well?its a fair bet everyone who trained under him was on EPO.
By everyone I assume you mean nobody?
mussibini wrote:
This whole thread is absolutely disgusting. A bunch of loser men complaining because they thing emotional abuse is ok. Idiots talking about manchildren throwing trash cans, the militia and a woman daring to fight back against an abusive male.......... LOTS of abusers making excuses in here today. It is becoming more and more obvious just how disgusting and pathetic the f'ing losers are on this board. One troll even called fighting against abuse woke..... wtf
Mary, enough with the name calling and abusive language.
No way! She would be squealing like a pig if she had any valid evidence of doping.
fada tyme wrote:
600yd/600m man wrote:
Salazar ruined an elite 800m-1500m talent. Mary C's family should have done research on Salazar. Salazar had an ego. He believed he knew how to coach anyone, 800m to ultras. Salazar deep down in his bones knew he had no clue how to coach 800m athletes, gave up on developing Mary Cain's 800m talent, immediately trained Mary Cain to be a 1500m-5000m athlete. This site is mostly current or former hs JV XC runners and current or former D-3 JV XC runners. Most posters on this site enjoy or enjoyed XC training and you cannot understand why that was part of the entire process in ruining Mary Cain, a young 800m talent. A talent who should have been treated like a female Abdi Bile. Bile was an 800m athlete in his teens and early twenties who switched to 1500m in his mid-twenties. THAT is how Mary Cain's training and racing should have progressed. If Mary Cain had achieved at 1500m what Abdi Bile achieved, would Cain sue Salazar? We know the likely answer. Salazar ruined an elite teenage 800m athlete. There is a price to be paid for that. Too many of you are worrying about the smallest details. Salazar screwed up. Screwing up means one then pays a price.
An attempt to make this the basis of her case will result in a decision for the defendant(s).
Of course what I stated has not and will not end up in court papers. The law is about minute details. I gave a 1000ft. view. A view most on this site and on this thread do not seem to comprehend.
bleu wrote:
No way! She would be squealing like a pig if she had any valid evidence of doping.
The problem with her squealing is that it would put her directly against anyone in that program who are/were her supposed supporters. So I'm not sure she would have. It's possible in a deposition that should could be asked that question (possibly by either side) and her answer would certainly be interesting.
Primo Numero Uno wrote:
SDSU Aztec wrote:
No, its not. There was a minimum weight her body was capable of achieving and she shouldn't have been pushed to being below that level. Attempting to be a world class runner should not require 5 stress fractures.
At her training level, she would have needed about 3000 calories. If Salazar put her on a diet of 1500 calories so she would look like Klosterhalfen, he should be sued.
If her accusations are true, there is absolutely no way Scumacher or Ritz would do the same thing. Houlihan is not thin and I seriously doubt Schumacher was pushing her to lose weight. Her powering down monster burritos makes me think she was on an unrestricted diet.
First of all do you have evidence that Salazaar put her on a 1500 calorie a day diet? If he did that is just flat out bad coaching and I don't know what all the nutritionists at Nike are doing because anyone who knows anything about running or nutrition 101 knows an 18 year old training at a pro level cannot live off that.
But as some of your assertions about it being warranted for her to sue because she had injuries related to the coaching and diet I do not agree. Get ready for pandora's box to be opened on the running world. Several girls had issues like this on my college team at various points. I'd say at least a third of the girls who took running seriously on my team went through some phase where everyone kind of grimaced and was like, "is she eating enough?" and I never saw or heard of anything my coaches did that I would classify as remotely inappropriate. Women's running is a messy sport on some levels because of the reality that you are dealing with young women who are under a lot of pressure related to athletics at the same time there is a lot of maturity and insecurity issues. Combine that with the fact that you do need to be in a certain body condition to perform. This bodyweight issue is not as black and white as a lot of people make it and if we start down this road honestly half the college coaches in the US could have lawsuits launched against them. If some of the allegations Cain launches are true, which I seriously question, I think it makes Salazaar a bad coach, and unfit to coach women, but a $20 million dollar lawsuit is extremely frivoulous.
Of course I don't know what Cain's diet was and I did use the word "if". Your examples are about women with eating disorders and not from a coach demanding that they lose weight. A coach has no control over the former and will not be successfuly sued but there could be liability for the latter.
Again, it's typical for a large claim of damages to be in a lawsuit and that in no way makes it frivolous.
Mary's claim is that Salazar set an arbitrary, unrealistic weight goal for her. In court, Salazar will need to prove her weight goal was reasonable and she was put on an adequate diet. He had no right to take an all, or nothing, approach with her career.