The altitude of Mexico City is about 25% greater than Nairobi. Surely that makes a difference?
The altitude of Mexico City is about 25% greater than Nairobi. Surely that makes a difference?
rekrunner wrote:
rojo wrote:
Wheating was clearly a MASSIVE talent moving up in distacne. The guy had made the Olympic team at 800. MUCH MUCH MUCH less suspicious.
This is the kind of energy and knowledge we need before expressing opinions based on gut feelings. 8 seconds can happen for many explainable non-doping reasons, and the progression itself is not a strong basis for suspicion. So do we think Katir is like Ramzi, or like Wheating? Why? Based on performance alone, or are there other explicit or implicit factors that make us suspicious?
Maybe closer to home, compare the similar progressions of “wejo” when he “sucked at 10K”, and Cathal Lombard. If in 2022, we have another unknown runner jumping from 30:14 to 28:06, after 5 years of competing at University, do we suspect that this gain can only be “entirely due to EPO”? I’m inclined to think, based on similar studies and performance gains, that whatever can be gained by EPO, can also be gained by hi-lo training, by moving to places like Flagstaff, combined with identifying and correcting problems with the previous training.
We think Katir is like Ramzi because both showed no sign of such outstanding talent and both improved massively in two events at the same time at 23 (Wheating was 22 btw). And yes, because both have a North African background and North Africa is clearly a corrupt region in which doping is seen as absolutely normal (evidenced also by the two regular North African posters here - Passant and Ghost1). Of course for a pseudo 'scientist' like you, the value judgement that this is 'racist' thinking, renders it invalid.
Luckily, the real scientists at WADA and World Athletics disagree, and that is why both Morocco and Algeria are on their small 'watch list'.
Bicurious wrote:
If you are applying that to Jakob, then you have to apply that to Tim Cheruiyot as well.
Where do you see in my post any suggestion that Jakob is doping?
My reasoning was like
if (Property P == true)
(Property Q == true)
else
Return
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Sound like we are discussing with the same guy, ove and over again, same arguments but different usernames.
Saying that "I'm in a clean region" and others "are in a corrupt" region is a basic error of logic. You don't look deeply at the mechanic works in this world.
It's a complet chao.
Kitty was a 1:51 guy a couple of years back. I don't care how much faster he might have been, that's what he sped to over 2 laps.
HOW MANY 1:51 guys could split this in a 1500m and maintain this a couple of seasons later?
HOW MANY 1:51 guys could run 2*1K at 2:18
(1:50.4 pace) with 6 mins rest?
It's absurd beyond belief that anyone entertains thoughts about organic improvement due to hard work when the hard work could only plausibly have been enabled by doping.
September 6, 2020 KBC Heusden-Zolder, B Heat
Men's 1500m
Final 1
1. Quentin TISON 16 APR 1996 FRA 3:36.85
2. Boaz KIPRUGUT 18 MAY 1998 KEN 3:36.97
3. Mohamed KATIR 17 FEB 1998 ESP 3:37.18
4. Mahadi ABDI ALI 08 NOV 1995 NED 3:37.43
5. Isaac KIMELI 09 MAR 1994 BEL 3:37.60
6. David BUSTOS 25 AUG 1990 ESP 3:37.93
7. Tim VAN DE VELDE 01 FEB 2000 BEL 3:38.15
8. Nassim HASSAOUS 23 MAR 1994 ESP 3:38.19
9. Marius PROBST 20 AUG 1995 GER 3:38.29
10. Mikael JOHNSEN 04 FEB 1992 DEN 3:38.69
11. Hugo HAY 28 MAR 1997 FRA 3:38.73
12. Matthew HUGHES 03 AUG 1989 CAN 3:39.84
Mounir AKBACHE 14 MAR 1986 FRA DNF
Pieter CLAUS 01 MAR 1993 BEL DNF
Mariano GARCÍA 25 SEP 1997 ESP DNF
That's the 1:51 guy in 3rd that grumpy runner mentioned.
On August 24th, Katir was a well-placed 4th in Castellón in 3:36.59 (2.87s adrift of winner Ignacio Fontes).
This is that 2:26 1,000m guy.
This same fella is down to 7:35 earlier this year off of 3:40.8/8.07.7/13:50 bests last season. Not unreal. NCAA guys have taken bigger jumps.
Somehow, magically, from thin air (or according to the thin air if you're argument is the high altitude is what gifted Katir his improvements), he's down to 3:28/7:27/12:50.
Who has EVER made this kind of jump in history to sub 3:30/sub 13:00/sub 7:30 in one year? Literally, the man was an also-ran a year ago.
Passant wrote:
Sound like we are discussing with the same guy, ove and over again, same arguments but different usernames.
Saying that "I'm in a clean region" and others "are in a corrupt" region is a basic error of logic. You don't look deeply at the mechanic works in this world.
It's a complet chao.
Lol. Katir is more obvious than Hassan. Total joke.
Moroccans are the American sprinters of the distance world. Both groups ate sickeningly dirty and a blight on athletics. Willful naïveté blinded by bias is evident in this thread. Consider yourselves part of the problem in your acceptance and apology for doping.
https://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1091486/morocco-nigeria-aiu-list-doping-risk
Armstronglivs wrote:
Emily Swatson wrote:
Nah. You lie to "prove" your views are correct. You are the dense one when you believe yourself to be smarter than the rest.
I don't think there is any doubt I am smarter than you are. I don't have to lie prove my views are correct. But you might.
You narcissists are funny.
Bilbo whatever, Bergkampf, Jack link, etc.
Jeezus Coevett, it's hard to keep up.
Bergenkampf wrote:
We think Katir is like Ramzi because both showed no sign of such outstanding talent and both improved massively in two events at the same time at 23 (Wheating was 22 btw). And yes, because both have a North African background and North Africa is clearly a corrupt region in which doping is seen as absolutely normal (evidenced also by the two regular North African posters here - Passant and Ghost1). Of course for a pseudo 'scientist' like you, the value judgement that this is 'racist' thinking, renders it invalid.
Luckily, the real scientists at WADA and World Athletics disagree, and that is why both Morocco and Algeria are on their small 'watch list'.
I can think of a number of reasons why an athlete may have a breakthrough year.
One difference for the Moroccans is that Ramzi went to Bahrain, which is a different environment than Morocco or Spain.
I didn’t pass any value judgement about “racism”. The pseudo-scientist in me would talk about the fallacy of guilt by association.
Armstronglivs wrote:
I don't think there is any doubt I am smarter than you are. I don't have to lie prove my views are correct. But you might.
One of the most difficult tasks: convince a stupid one that he is stupid.
Bergenkampf wrote:
(evidenced also by the two regular North African posters here - Passant and Ghost1)
Ghost1 is not North African.
Don't you ever get tired of lying, Coevett?
I can assure you that I am most certainly not Coevett. The Brits have nothing to brag about, as I believe that Coe is complicit in the propagation of the mockery being made of athletics. Farah was the prototypical success of shady misdeeds.
Emily Swatson wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
I don't think there is any doubt I am smarter than you are. I don't have to lie prove my views are correct. But you might.
You narcissists are funny.
What is funnier is that you are one of them.
soon you will understand, Army wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
I don't think there is any doubt I am smarter than you are. I don't have to lie prove my views are correct. But you might.
One of the most difficult tasks: convince a stupid one that he is stupid.
You are correct. It hasn't worked on you, either.
Emily Swatson wrote:
Bilbo whatever, Bergkampf, Jack link, etc.
Jeezus Coevett, it's hard to keep up.
For you, it would be.
Armstronglivs wrote:
Emily Swatson wrote:
You narcissists are funny.
What is funnier is that you are one of them.
Not at all. I am not a manipulative person who feels superior to others.
You are.
Armstronglivs wrote:
Emily Swatson wrote:
Bilbo whatever, Bergkampf, Jack link, etc.
Jeezus Coevett, it's hard to keep up.
For you, it would be.
Your comebacks are almost as lame as you.
regardless of what is actually going on with katir it is undeniably strange how dominant he was right before the olympics and how he completely fell off during the games and after. remember how he was literally the favorite to win the 5k (based on odds and many predictions)? over the world records holder and a handful of other legit contenders. maybe he got sick or had a niggle? there are a few possible explanations and doping could be one of them. furthermore, im sure everyone responds differently to drugs as they do to supershoes so its stupid to try and create a universal conversion.