Still believe that Flo Jo's 10.49 isn't legit?

How about everybody just runs in Jesse Owens’s shoes,or barefoot like Bikila, and they cease and desist not only from the prohibited PEDs but from all the performance-enhancing drugs available at GNC that the entire public has access to and most (including most of you on this sanctimonious thread) use freely? The average Westerner is so doped up on caffeine, opiates, marijuana and GNC drugs that they aren’t lucid enough to lodge a legitimate critique of any of these relatively clean-living athletes.

The Clown Show wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

But that interests me much less than that it was clearly drug-assisted. As Thompson-Hera is. Peas in a pod.

Yeah. Who isn't though? I'm waiting for this charade to finally be over. Said it multiple times the last week or so: I firmly believe that every woman in that 100m final dopes and a massive percentage of top track and field performers is doping.

I mean, what would happen if EVERYONE came clean? would we all stop watching? Shoes are "performance enhancers." So why not just drop the act and allow drugs too?

False analogy. Training is also performance enhancing. There is no problem with using the natural means available to everyone to get better results. Cheating is "performance enhancing" but that is seeking to gain an advantage that goes against the rules and the spirit of sportsmanship. And sports should be about sportsmanship - as well as abiding by the rules. Doping isn't. It isn't natural - it can also be harmful - and it is cheating.

Shoes aren't cheating if they are a technological improvement available to all competitors and don't favour some competitors over others.

rojo togurt wrote:

How about everybody just runs in Jesse Owens’s shoes,or barefoot like Bikila, and they cease and desist not only from the prohibited PEDs but from all the performance-enhancing drugs available at GNC that the entire public has access to and most (including most of you on this sanctimonious thread) use freely? The average Westerner is so doped up on caffeine, opiates, marijuana and GNC drugs that they aren’t lucid enough to lodge a legitimate critique of any of these relatively clean-living athletes.

There are a lot of poorly constructed arguments here. Hypocrisy by non-sporting members of the public is irrelevant, and you are deceived by your misuse of semantics around "performance enhancement". The issue concerning doping is not to ban just any form of performance aid - which will include food, sleep and training - they clearly aid performance - but performance enhancement that fundamentally changes the playing field, though not through natural means or through approved technological improvements available to everyone, as well as it being likely harmful to health.

Marijuana use is a further poor example when comparing members of the public with "clean living" athletes, as we have just seen one such athlete banned for marijuana use.

Drugs per se are not the issue, as aspirin and anti-inflammatories are not banned - they have minimal effect on sports performance apart from the reduction of pain from injury - but substances that are likely of their own to give a significant performance boost over other competitors. Many such drugs are restricted for medical reasons - which is for what they are typically prescribed - like meldonium or hgh. But in an athlete they are powerful stimulants and performance enhancers.

As I said in a response above, technological improvements such as in shoes are not an unfair advantage if all competitors have access to them, and they don't fundamentally change the nature of the sport (like brushspikes were perceived to do, resulting in their ban) or favour some competitors over others because of widely differing responses to their use.

Improvements in sport are not the issue; unfair advantage is.

Awsi Dooger wrote:

I appreciate that Thompson-Herah isn't bothering with the cynical side. She says she has been carefully studying tapes of FloJo's races and the aspect that stands out is how relaxed she ran. Thompson-Herah says she has tried to incorporate that.

No kidding. Easily the biggest difference in Thompson-Herah this year compared to even 2016 is that she maintains tension free in the arms, shoulders and face all the way to the tape. Previously the relaxation was challenged over the final 5-15 meters.

The biggest difference in Thompson-Hera since 2016 is that after five years of doing nothing and winning no global medals she's having a year like Flojo.

On the other hand, re Linford nailing Flojo, it may take a doper to pick one.

Armstronglivs wrote:

On the other hand, re Linford nailing Flojo, it may take a doper to pick one.

lol, yes, i dont doubt that for a second

'you got to take a shed load of drugs to run that fast. I know; i did'. Linford Christie

'its blatantly obvious to me through my career just how many athletes have been taking drugs. I am now re setting the 100m mens wr at 10.00, the women's at 11.00, and the 800m at 1.45 wink wink.' Lord Coe.

I am equally suspicious of Elaine Thompson having used PEDs as I am of Flojo.

But I think her 10.54 is superior to Flojo's 10.49, drugs not withstanding because of the massive wind assistance.

Anything +2.0m/s and below are treated equally on the books.

pupil3142 wrote:

Linford, as you say, is a stunning example. It is simply amazing that not one of these doped up cheaters has ever come forward and been honest,

The omerta amongst athletes is stonger than anywhere. they all protect each other, and threaten each other.

Coe is responsible for this. Coe could, and should, set the record straight in about 5 minutes.

I dont care which nation cheats the most, but i care deeply that a british lord is in charge of it.

why cant coe admit what SS just said?

Fatima Whitbread.

Well of course Christie tested positive for pseudoephedrine and Carl Lewis's "work" with UCLA doctors prior to '84 is pretty much public knowledge. My favorite though is Michael Johnson who managed to get himself a commentary gig on BBC where he would spout all sorts of self-righteous cr@p on the evils of doping and dopers. The same MJ that walked into doping control with Istavan Gyulai after the 200m at the 1996 games, signed his doping control test and walked straight out (true story). Yeah okay.

Why is the code so strong? I think the mental gymnastic is pretty straight forwards. You always believe that someone else is out there cheating that did it first and/or is getting a bigger advantage than you are. It's not that you don't acknowledge your indiscretion you simply choose to overlook it for a larger one. Ever remember having a fight with your brother or sister as a kid? Throwing kicks and punches? What was always the first line of defense when you got in trouble? "They did it to me first or they did it to me harder" - same human brain - same logic!

Star wrote:

I am equally suspicious of Elaine Thompson having used PEDs as I am of Flojo.

But I think her 10.54 is superior to Flojo's 10.49, drugs not withstanding because of the massive wind assistance.

Anything +2.0m/s and below are treated equally on the books.

It's really about this simple. I think the biggest mistake people make is believing the marketing hype that Florence Griffith-Joyner was some kind of stud athlete to begin with because I hate to break American hearts here - she wasn't, she was by international standards at the time a good sprinter and that's all.

She was born in December '59

1983 11.06 Bruxelles (BEL) 26 AUG 1983

1984 10.99 Berlin (GER) 17 AUG 1984

1985 11.00 Stadio Olimpico, Roma (ITA) 07 SEP 1985

1987 10.96 Köln (GER) 16 AUG 1987

1988 10.49 Indianapolis, IN (USA) 16 JUL 1988

Her prime years (23-27) she spent as an 10.96-11.06 runner. Very consistent, very little deviation. If you even go and look at the results of those individual seasons the results are very consistent with very little deviation. This was her level.

1988, Olympic year, age of 28 and boom we start off running 10.89, we then run a windy 10.60 we run a legal 10.70 and we do the double at the games.

FloJo was not a great talent, I'm sorry she wasn't.

After reading Linthorpe's paper, I suspect the race was wind-aided. Nonetheless, I found much of his data driven evidence unpersuasive, and wish he'd further investigated the prevalence of 0.0 readings, and especially on otherwise windy days.

At a glance, he also appears to be the only scientist researching how wind affects sprint race times, which leaves me wondering whether the peer review process competently evaluated his claims.

Personally, I'd appreciate hearing a data scientist's thoughts on the paper, with specific emphasis regarding Linthorpe's use of data from the single event in question, but again, I do think Flo-Jo's QF Trials race likely took place with a tail wind. Whether it was 2+ m/s, I don't know, but I do find it interesting that the IAAF chose not to act on his findings (especially since his investigation was at their behest).

Nobody thinks what you are saying.

We all know she was decent for years, had one amazing season and then quit.

Is your response to me a way of saying you think Elaine Thompson is clean because she had a more consistent career?

10.70 to 10.54 this year is still quite a drop. And her 10.70 was 5 years ago.

They were likely both too juiced to lose.

But FloJo had a gust of wind to help help her, too.

Star wrote:

Nobody thinks what you are saying.

We all know she was decent for years, had one amazing season and then quit.

Is your response to me a way of saying you think Elaine Thompson is clean because she had a more consistent career?

10.70 to 10.54 this year is still quite a drop. And her 10.70 was 5 years ago.

They were likely both too juiced to lose.

But FloJo had a gust of wind to help help her, too.

I don't understand the first part of your reply and my post was not related to Thompson-Herah. It was just pointing out another part of the 10.49 myth was that people actually believed FloJo was a stud when she really wasn't.

But if you are asking me separately if I think she (ETH) is clean I do not. Given the struggles Jamaica in particular has had enforcing drug testing on their island (read: 2012) and the disproportionate dominance they have had for years, I would be surprised if many of their truly world class athletes were clean.

It's just my opinion she is a better athlete to begin with than Griffith-Joyner was. I mean I have a 50-50 chance to be right here because one mathematically better than the other.

Any credible link supporting that Michael Johnson claim?

I'm far from the most informed on the subject, but I've never really heard of MJ being associated with doping, let alone anything remotely akin to what you're specifically (and rather casually) claiming.

I'm pretty sure a long term achilles injury capped her performances post Rio, and while she still ran intermittently, at times she couldn't even compete in spikes.

ETH may well be doping, but I don't think her sudden resurgence is as suspicious as it may seem at a glance.

I believe Flo-Jo was on the juice (up to her gills).

Yeah I'd love to see more on the MJ thing too. Mind you, the simple eye test should leave any rationale fan questioning how somebody that ran like a penguin could possibly set WRs in highly competitive events, but maybe that's just me?

whaletail wrote:

Any credible link supporting that Michael Johnson claim?

I'm far from the most informed on the subject, but I've never really heard of MJ being associated with doping, let alone anything remotely akin to what you're specifically (and rather casually) claiming.

Well what would be credible to you in a message board forum? I ran professionally in Europe for just under decade and knew many agents/people involved in the sport. This story was told to me by an agent (in a very well know athlete management agency) who's colleague was there waiting for two Ethiopian athletes after the 5000m semi-finals and saw it first hand with his own eyes. I have no reason to doubt this recount it seems far too specific to just make up these details don't you think?

But then again you probably already knew what that this was about as good as I could possibly give you (you want a youtube linked confession?) which doesn't fit your bill of "credible link" so what's the point anyway. Again, what would be an "association" with Johnson and doping - something in the media? Let me ask you something, did you ever hear anything about Carl Lewis doping during his actual career? Yeah, exactly.

I don’t care if it is or isn’t because of you look at Thompson and especially SAFP then you’d know they aren’t “legit”. Especially SAFP. She looks like a shorter version of jeter lol. She may of been clean at the start of her career, doubtful, but she dang sure hasn’t been the past eight.

The real question is how does SAFP keep getting the pass and not get busted?

I love performance enhancing drugs. Think they should all be legal. I just can’t stand SAFP holier than thought mommy rocket schtick lol.

Keep gassing it up girls. I’d like to see some Americans get to gassing and get up there.

Coleman should be pissed when he see’s safp running and he’s at the house for years lol.

All you have to do is look at Michael Johnson in 1992 when he really was about 170. Then go back and watch him in 1996. He’s 50lbs heavier of lean muscle lol. All of our greats and favorites have used these miracle drugs. Bolt included.