Hocker vs Ingebrigtsen in Tokyo

AP5000 wrote:

It's pointless to keep arguing. You guys think a 335 guy (it's what he is) is in the same league as a 328 guy. It's beyond absurd. You just can't reason with irrational people.

Let's mark this post and come back post 1500 final.

P.S. I asked what global final Hocker was in because someone stated he and Centro were in them before. I guess I'm a dick for calling out that fallacy.

Sounds good, boss. You're in the drivers seat on this, so we'll just touch base with you when you're ready.

And no need to regurgitate a false statement about Hocker in a global final. Just takes your credibility even lower by addressing the error. You appear to be grasping at straws.

Please stop insulting people? Okay, beta. Do you work for AOC? Maybe the DNC? Grow up and put your feelings away. They could get hurt in the real world and we wouldn't want that.

I'm simply tired of the people on this thread making up times they think someone can run that are so far beyond their current capability its absurd. You throw 5 seconds around in a 1500 as if it doesn't take a significant amount of training to drop 5 seconds. Like it will just show up in 4 weeks in Tokyo (or in thos case he currently has it but just doesn't use that 330 speed for some reason).

Okay, Pizza Boy. Will do...got you covered.

The Goose is going to send Jakob home devastated

bang bang bang wrote:

Hocker has a chance in a kicker's race but even without Cheriyout the 1500 could be fast. Jakob may see this race and decide to run a sub 3:30 in the Olympic final. Hocker is good but I'm not sure if he is that good.

This what he’ll probably have to go through to win gold. 1500 from Doha.

Rank Heat Name Nationality Time Notes

1 3 Ayanleh Souleiman Djibouti (DJI) 3:36.16 Q

2 3 Taoufik Makhloufi Algeria (ALG) 3:36.18 Q

3 3 Kalle Berglund Sweden (SWE) 3:36.19 Q

4 3 Neil Gourley Great Britain & N.I. (GBR) 3:36.31 Q

5 3 Craig Engels United States (USA) 3:36.35 Q

6 3 Ronald Musagala Uganda (UGA) 3:36.54 Q

7 3 Ronald Kwemoi Kenya (KEN) 3:36.66 q

8 3 Jesús Gómez Spain (ESP) 3:36.72 q

9 2 Timothy Cheruiyot Kenya (KEN) 3:36.82 Q

10 3 Stewart McSweyn Australia (AUS) 3:36.88 q

11 2 Josh Kerr Great Britain & N.I. (GBR) 3:36.99 Q

12 2 Ben Blankenship United States (USA) 3:37.13 Q

13 2 Filip Ingebrigtsen Norway (NOR) 3:37.26 Q

14 2 Abdelaati Iguider Morocco (MAR) 3:37.44 Q

15 2 Kevin López Spain (ESP) 3:37.62 Q

16 1 Jakob Ingebrigtsen Norway (NOR) 3:37.67 Q

17 1 Alexis Miellet France (FRA) 3:37.69 Q

18 1 Matthew Centrowitz Jr. United States (USA) 3:37.69 Q

19 1 Jake Wightman Great Britain & N.I. (GBR) 3:37.72 Q

20 1 Marcin Lewandowski Poland (POL) 3:37.75 Q

21 1 Amos Bartelsmeyer Germany (GER) 3:37.80 Q

22 1 Samuel Tefera Ethiopia (ETH) 3:37.82 q

23 2 Isaac Kimeli Belgium (BEL) 3:37.87 q

24 2 Youssouf Hich Bachir Djibouti (DJI) 3:37.93 q

25 1 Adel Mechaal Spain (ESP) 3:37.95

26 2 Kumari Taki Kenya (KEN) 3:37.98

27 1 Filip Sasínek Czech Republic (CZE) 3:38.17

28 1 George Manangoi Kenya (KEN) 3:38.39

29 1 Ryan Gregson Australia (AUS) 3:38.69

30 1 Abdi Waiss Mouhyadin Djibouti (DJI) 3:38.79

31 3 Ismael Debjani Belgium (BEL) 3:39.11

32 3 Jakub Holuša Czech Republic (CZE) 3:39.79

33 1 Hicham Ouladha Morocco (MAR) 3:39.86

34 2 Jinson Johnson India (IND) 3:39.86

35 3 Abdullahi Jama Mohamed Somalia (SOM) 3:40.84

36 2 Teddese Lemi Ethiopia (ETH) 3:41.32 qR

37 3 Abdirahman Saeed Hassan Qatar (QAT) 3:42.24

38 2 Musulman Dzholomanov Kyrgyzstan (KGZ) 3:45.07

39 1 Abraham Kipchirchir Rotich Kenya (KEN) 3:45.19

40 3 Yach Majok Koon Wol South Sudan (SSD) 3:46.24

41 2 Matthew Ramsden Australia (AUS) 3:47.59 qR

42 2 Paulo Amotun Lokoro Athlete Refugee Team (ART) 3:48.98

43 1 Lucirio Antonio Garrido Venezuela (VEN) 3:52.93

3 Brahim Kaazouzi Morocco (MAR) DNS

2 Rabil Doukkana France (FRA)

Semi-finals Edit

The first five in each heat (Q) and the next two fastest (q) qualified for the final.[7]

Rank Heat Name Nationality Time Notes

1 2 Marcin Lewandowski Poland (POL) 3:36.50 Q

2 1 Timothy Cheruiyot Kenya (KEN) 3:36.53 Q

3 2 Ronald Kwemoi Kenya (KEN) 3:36.53 Q

4 2 Jakob Ingebrigtsen Norway (NOR) 3:36.58 Q

5 2 Josh Kerr Great Britain & N.I. (GBR) 3:36.58 Q

6 1 Taoufik Makhloufi Algeria (ALG) 3:36.69 Q

7 1 Neil Gourley Great Britain & N.I. (GBR) 3:36.69 Q

8 1 Craig Engels United States (USA) 3:36.69 Q

9 1 Kalle Berglund Sweden (SWE) 3:36.72 Q

10 2 Youssouf Hich Bachir Djibouti (DJI) 3:36.72 Q, SB

11 2 Matthew Centrowitz Jr. United States (USA) 3:36.77 q, SB

12 2 Jake Wightman Great Britain & N.I. (GBR) 3:36.85 q

13 1 Ben Blankenship United States (USA) 3:36.98

14 1 Filip Ingebrigtsen Norway (NOR) 3:37.00

15 2 Matthew Ramsden Australia (AUS) 3:37.16 PB

16 2 Ronald Musagala Uganda (UGA) 3:37.19

17 1 Alexis Miellet France (FRA) 3:37.39

18 1 Isaac Kimeli Belgium (BEL) 3:37.50

19 2 Kevin López Spain (ESP) 3:37.56

20 2 Amos Bartelsmeyer Germany (GER) 3:37.74

21 1 Stewart McSweyn Australia (AUS) 3:37.95

22 1 Ayanleh Souleiman Djibouti (DJI) 3:38.35

23 1 Teddese Lemi Ethiopia (ETH) 3:38.79 PB

24 1 Jesús Gómez Spain (ESP) 3:40.29

25 2 Abdelaati Iguider Morocco (MAR) 3:42.23

2 Samuel Tefera Ethiopia (ETH) DNF

Final Edit

The final was started on 6 October at 19:40.[8]

Rank Name Nationality Time Notes

1st place, gold medalist(s) Timothy Cheruiyot Kenya (KEN) 3:29.26

2nd place, silver medalist(s) Taoufik Makhloufi Algeria (ALG) 3:31.38 SB

3rd place, bronze medalist(s) Marcin Lewandowski Poland (POL) 3:31.46 NR

4 Jakob Ingebrigtsen Norway (NOR) 3:31.70

5 Jake Wightman Great Britain & N.I. (GBR) 3:31.87 PB

6 Josh Kerr Great Britain & N.I. (GBR) 3:32.52 PB

7 Ronald Kwemoi Kenya (KEN) 3:32.72 SB

8 Matthew Centrowitz Jr. United States (USA) 3:32.81 SB

9 Kalle Berglund Sweden (SWE) 3:33.70 NR

10 Craig Engels United States (USA) 3:34.24

11 Neil Gourley Great Britain & N.I. (GBR) 3:37.30

12 Youssouf Hich Bachir Djibouti (DJI) 3:37.96

Assuming that both Hocker and Ingrebrigsten make it to the final, who would have expended less energy getting through the rounds? Is this significant?

AP5000 wrote:

Please stop insulting people? Okay, beta. Do you work for AOC? Maybe the DNC? Grow up and put your feelings away. They could get hurt in the real world and we wouldn't want that.

I'm simply tired of the people on this thread making up times they think someone can run that are so far beyond their current capability its absurd. You throw 5 seconds around in a 1500 as if it doesn't take a significant amount of training to drop 5 seconds. Like it will just show up in 4 weeks in Tokyo (or in thos case he currently has it but just doesn't use that 330 speed for some reason).

You do know that Hocker ran a 3:50 indoor mile this year. What's Jakob's best time indoors? That might be a more apt comparison for now because Jakob has been running Diamond League for 3 years, Hocker NCAA for one season. That said, 95-99% probability Jakob runs faster than Hocker, who has maybe 50% chance of even making it out of the semil

However you sound like a douche. Why bring in political figures? bet you are also a real a-hole in life as well as here. ES&D

Wow Oingo Boingo, you sure served me. Way to clap back. How am I going to sleep tonight and being clapped back so hard. Gotta clap back these days!

BTW, he has a 3:51 mile PR back in 2019. I think he was 18 at the time.

AP5000,

Is Hobbs Kessler a superior runner to Hocker because he has a faster PB?

AP you are obviously a moran.

So Hocker is better at the mile. Jakob is such a slouch. (using your logic and extension rules)

Hockers mile time converts to 3:33.13.

For today this is my limit for him, as he had 6 opportunities to run faster than 3:35. And yes, there are guys who can kick like crazy yet never manage to run a fast even pace - I was one of these guys on a sub-elite level.

Well he has a faster mile PR than Jakob. Same as the 1500 but reverse and then there's the 7 second gap.

Sorry dude, almost had to call in the sick the rest of the day after that vicious clap back.

Sopa de Sabadell wrote:

Hockers mile time converts to 3:33.13.

For today this is my limit for him, as he had 6 opportunities to run faster than 3:35. And yes, there are guys who can kick like crazy yet never manage to run a fast even pace - I was one of these guys on a sub-elite level.

Please name an elite 1500 runner who fits this mold.

The 6 opportunities thing is a joke.

Also the idea that a US runner with a pedestrian PB and a trademark kick could medal at the Olympics after outrunning Centrowitz in the Olympic Trials is totally absurd. Completely crazy and not something that could ever happen. Never.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Do3G-AEvJfY&ab_channel=TeamUSA

THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:

Sopa de Sabadell wrote:

Hockers mile time converts to 3:33.13.

For today this is my limit for him, as he had 6 opportunities to run faster than 3:35. And yes, there are guys who can kick like crazy yet never manage to run a fast even pace - I was one of these guys on a sub-elite level.

Please name an elite 1500 runner who fits this mold.

The 6 opportunities thing is a joke.

Lewandowski. If his kick would translate into ability to hold high and even pace, he would have been a 3:28 runner at least.

As for 6 opportunities: Hocker managed to lose to Nuguse and Teare in one of those.

AO5000 wrote:

"I didn't say they had the fastest PBs of the group, I said their PBs were all after than the winning time.

That means they are capable of winning without it having to be their fastest time. Until he does otherwise, hocker can only run 335. You are only as good as your last race.

This Olympic final will be fast. It will be like Doha. A 335 guy is simply going to be out classed by the fleet of 328 to 333 guys ahead of him"

------------

Seen through relatively neutral glasses ("relatively" because I am quite positive on both Hocker and Jakob) I will say:

A. Don´t underestimate Hocker. He hasn´t had a chance to run a really fast 1500m yet. I think if he ran Monaco or a similar fast race he will at least go 3:32 to 3:33. And he will be in the mix if it comes to a fast final lap in Tokyo (provided he qualifies for the final). It must be a fact that Hocker has one of the best finishers of the whole field

B. I don´t think Jakob will go out very fast if he (as expected) go to the final in Tokyo. That isn´t his style. But I think he gradually will increase the pace over the last laps as he did when he won both the 1500m and the 5000m in the European Champs in 2018. And as he did again in the European indoor Champs in the 1500m and the 3000m earlier this year. I doubt Hocker will be able to hang on when "the train goes".

C. I have been rather negative against Centro this year but he admittedly has looked good during the trials seeming to be in the mix too in Tokyo if it becomes a 3:32 to 3:33 race or slower.

D. At this stage, however, Jakob, Kerr, Wightman and Hoare seem to be the top runners with Hocker and Centro as outsiders in a slower race. And McSweyn too if he regains his good shape.

E. Someone stated that Hocker is as good as Jakob was in the same age.

That is completely wrong! Hocker is about 8.5 months younger than Jakob (6 June 2001 to 19 September 2000) but Jakob ran 3:28 last year at 19 and 3:31 at 17.

Sopa de Sabadell wrote:

Lewandowski. If his kick would translate into ability to hold high and even pace, he would have been a 3:28 runner at least.

As for 6 opportunities: Hocker managed to lose to Nuguse and Teare in one of those.

Lewandowski moved up to the 1500 too late in his career. Do you really think his physical peak for the 1500 is at age 32? Nevertheless he ran plenty even and smart in Doha and ran 3:31. He's shown he can do that, but in his age 33-34 season expecting him to hold 3:31 fitness all season is probably asking too much,.

Is Jakob running the 1500 or 5000? Or trying to do the double?

AP5000 wrote:

You can absolutely predict a final based on PR from perspective of who will be there at the end. All of the guys who finished in the top 5 in Doha have times FASTER than the winning time.

That’s a really good point. In 2016, Absel Kiprop came first because he had a 3:26 pb remember.