Brazier and Engels Friday Night Time Trial! (Did Brazier really run 3:35.85 and look like he was jogging?)

Unless they are dropping a 48.

Brazier just closed his last 100m faster than Coe did in LA. Nasty.

If Coe hadn't run in lane 2 for 8 meters he would have closed in 44.7 - unlike Brazier who obviously cheated on the backstretch and really ran a 64.

I wouldn't say brazier jogged that lol

Well done. 10/10. Got about halfway through before I figured it out.

Give some credit to LR.

This race, the Fort Collins 5k, and the beer mile and other independently produced races are popping up on the site, not behind a paywall.

Tell me again...What is Flotrack offering ? Production was better than Flotrack events in all cases. Love the race links dominating the front page of this site. Keep it up!

Coeevette wrote:

If Coe hadn't run in lane 2 for 8 meters he would have closed in 44.7 - unlike Brazier who obviously cheated on the backstretch and really ran a 64.

Haha this is actually the best post on this thread.

Anyways,

Let's put that race from Brazier into perspective and match it up with some World Championship finals of recent years. Let's take out Doha which was an outlier but look at London, Beijing and Moscow from 2013, 2015 and 2017 which were all fairly similarly played our races.

I have Brazier unofficially and roughly off the clock at 60,59,58 and 37.xx for his 3.35.85

In Beijing 2015 the splits were 59,59,57 and 39 for 3.34.41 (Kiprop win)

In London 2017 the splits were 61,56,56 and 40 for 3.33.61 (Manangoi win)

but the best comparison is Moscow 2013

59,59,57 and 40 for 3.36.28 (Kiprop win) - so basically 2.57 vs 2.58 at 1200m against Braziers effort.

Brazier for all intents and purposes ran a paced TT vs 4 dudes at a local high school in Portland in front of 30 people that was good enough to win a world 1500m title. Clearly there are some differences - the world final happens after 2 previous races in 4 days and it's unlikely (though also not impossible) that Brazier would get such a clean run in a world final. But there is also a difference between running in front of 45-60'000 people with a world title on the line and the bright lights of Jesuit High School in Beaverton at 7pm on a Friday night.

As for "doubling" etc - well this isn't so easy - the guy is only human and it would really depend on if the 1500m comes after the 8. I could though see an "El G 2004" type situation where after winning his main event he ran the 1500 (El G ran the 5000m obviously after the 15) with no pressure or expectations and if he ended up in the final and they mess around through 1000m then after seeing this I really believe it is a possibility.

I am stunned by that effort from Brazier - that was sensational. And it's clear he is the best middle distance runner on the planet as of right now and that is no disrespect to our friends in Norway or anyone on the African continent, but Brazier is really on a different level.

sherlock wrote:

Anyone else spot KoKo started on the wrong line so should be a DQ? She was right up next to lane 3 start position.

Yes! DQ for KoKo. She started on the 400m start line instead of the 1 turn stagger line.

Salvatore Stitchmo wrote:

I am stunned by that effort from Brazier - that was sensational. And it's clear he is the best middle distance runner on the planet as of right now and that is no disrespect to our friends in Norway or anyone on the African continent, but Brazier is really on a different level.

Couldn't have said it better myself. We'll see how the Africans fare this upcoming season given their sub-optimal training --or so it has appeared-- over the last four months. If they lack the ability to lead and run fast from the front, I actually like Brazier's chances in the 1500, and perhaps more so than in the 800.

Salvatore Stitchmo wrote:

I have Brazier unofficially and roughly off the clock at 60,59,58 and 37.xx for his 3.35.85

No. Your splits add up to 3:34.**

Brazier did not run the last 300m in 37.**

He went through 1200m in 2:57.5, meaning his last 300m was 38.4.

His splits were 60.6, 58.6, 58.3, 38.4 (52.2. 25.4, 13.2)

or 46.4, 58.6, (1:45.0) 58.7 (2:43.7)52.2 .

Comparable Championship races with similar splits would be:-

Kiprop 2015 World Champs - 60.5, 59.0, 56.9, 38.0 (51.7, 25.4,13.2) for a 3:34.4

OR - 45.0, 59.5, 58.2, 51.7

El Guerrouj 1997 World Champs - 61.1, 61.0, 54.1!!, 39.8 (52.5, 26.6, 13.5) for 3:35.8

OR - 44.8, 62.2, 56.3, 52.5

Bile 1989 World Cup - 58.4, 61.2, 58.3, 37.7 (51.5, 24.9, 12.7) for 3:35.6

with Coe on - 57.9, 61.3, 58.5, 38.0 (51.7, 25.1, 12.9) for 3:35.8.

Brazier's run was very impressive, especially considering it was a TT, but others have finished faster in a 3:35 in a lot more traffic.

Deanouk wrote:

Salvatore Stitchmo wrote:

I have Brazier unofficially and roughly off the clock at 60,59,58 and 37.xx for his 3.35.85

No. Your splits add up to 3:34.**

Brazier did not run the last 300m in 37.**

He went through 1200m in 2:57.5, meaning his last 300m was 38.4.

His splits were 60.6, 58.6, 58.3, 38.4 (52.2. 25.4, 13.2)

or 46.4, 58.6, (1:45.0) 58.7 (2:43.7)52.2 .

Comparable Championship races with similar splits would be:-

Kiprop 2015 World Champs - 60.5, 59.0, 56.9, 38.0 (51.7, 25.4,13.2) for a 3:34.4

OR - 45.0, 59.5, 58.2, 51.7

El Guerrouj 1997 World Champs - 61.1, 61.0, 54.1!!, 39.8 (52.5, 26.6, 13.5) for 3:35.8

OR - 44.8, 62.2, 56.3, 52.5

Bile 1989 World Cup - 58.4, 61.2, 58.3, 37.7 (51.5, 24.9, 12.7) for 3:35.6

with Coe on - 57.9, 61.3, 58.5, 38.0 (51.7, 25.1, 12.9) for 3:35.8.

Brazier's run was very impressive, especially considering it was a TT, but others have finished faster in a 3:35 in a lot more traffic.

Where are your splits for Brazier’s race coming from? I find it very hard to believe that he ran 13.8 from 1100m to 1200m. It does not look like they had sped up that much.

Salvatore Stitchmo wrote:

Dude I don't know. I know they are running an 800 TT and 1500 TT at Jesuit HS here in Portland. I have no idea who is pacing them, I know it's going to be an effort TT for these guys though.

I do find it hilarious that either people don't believe me or people don't care this is going down. Probably the most polarizing dude in Engels running and maybe the best American distance running talent ever are going for it tonight and it's crickets on these boards of "running fans".

Cool, I'll post the results later then.

The issue is ... no one cares about the former nop .. in fact it would be next level if they were ‘canceled’ for 2-4 years. Not everyone is interested in your wet dream.

secret workouts wrote:

Salvatore Stitchmo wrote:

Dude I don't know. I know they are running an 800 TT and 1500 TT at Jesuit HS here in Portland. I have no idea who is pacing them, I know it's going to be an effort TT for these guys though.

I do find it hilarious that either people don't believe me or people don't care this is going down. Probably the most polarizing dude in Engels running and maybe the best American distance running talent ever are going for it tonight and it's crickets on these boards of "running fans".

Cool, I'll post the results later then.

The issue is ... no one cares about the former nop .. in fact it would be next level if they were ‘canceled’ for 2-4 years. Not everyone is interested in your wet dream.

The issue is.... with your post... is that clearly you do in fact care about my "wet dream", which as it turns out wasn't a wet dream because it actually happened.

So the jizz is on you pal.

(man that was good and way, way too easy).

He is running so easy until 300m to go, it is incredible. 52.13 in that workout, with a 25 close. The time is comparable to a lot of winning WC finals and the close equivalent or superior. He has no one to push him and he looks so smooth in that last 100m, that there must be more there. Brazier, and this has been obvious since he ran his first sub 4 in December with a 53 last lap, has an incredible chance to win double gold in Tokyo. He is the favorite in the 800m and he can probably run a very fast time in the 1500m by following pacers. Tim would probably want to front run and get away from him early again. But Tim does not have the blasting speed Brazier has, so he better get a long way ahead before the last 200m.

John Macardle wrote:

Deanouk wrote:

No. Your splits add up to 3:34.**

Brazier did not run the last 300m in 37.**

He went through 1200m in 2:57.5, meaning his last 300m was 38.4.

His splits were 60.6, 58.6, 58.3, 38.4 (52.2. 25.4, 13.2)

or 46.4, 58.6, (1:45.0) 58.7 (2:43.7)52.2 .

Comparable Championship races with similar splits would be:-

Kiprop 2015 World Champs - 60.5, 59.0, 56.9, 38.0 (51.7, 25.4,13.2) for a 3:34.4

OR - 45.0, 59.5, 58.2, 51.7

El Guerrouj 1997 World Champs - 61.1, 61.0, 54.1!!, 39.8 (52.5, 26.6, 13.5) for 3:35.8

OR - 44.8, 62.2, 56.3, 52.5

Bile 1989 World Cup - 58.4, 61.2, 58.3, 37.7 (51.5, 24.9, 12.7) for 3:35.6

with Coe on - 57.9, 61.3, 58.5, 38.0 (51.7, 25.1, 12.9) for 3:35.8.

Brazier's run was very impressive, especially considering it was a TT, but others have finished faster in a 3:35 in a lot more traffic.

Where are your splits for Brazier’s race coming from? I find it very hard to believe that he ran 13.8 from 1100m to 1200m. It does not look like they had sped up that much.

The lead goes through 1200m just as clock turns 2:57. At this point Brazier is in 4th, 3.5 - 4m behind, which is c. 0.5 secs.

It's a pity the running clock doesn't show tenths, but you can get a pretty accurate idea of his spolits by looking at his (and others') positions based on where they are as the seconds click on to the next. The splits I took at 300, 700, 1100 were all within 0.1 off the official splits here-

It absolutely looks more like 2:57 high when Brazier crosses to my eyes, but it isn't worth arguing over.

zvxczvxc wrote:

He is running so easy until 300m to go, it is incredible. 52.13 in that workout, with a 25 close. The time is comparable to a lot of winning WC finals and the close equivalent or superior. He has no one to push him and he looks so smooth in that last 100m, that there must be more there. Brazier, and this has been obvious since he ran his first sub 4 in December with a 53 last lap, has an incredible chance to win double gold in Tokyo. He is the favorite in the 800m and he can probably run a very fast time in the 1500m by following pacers. Tim would probably want to front run and get away from him early again. But Tim does not have the blasting speed Brazier has, so he better get a long way ahead before the last 200m.

It was super impressive, but it's one thing running a 38 mid last 300m in a TT with efficient pace, good drafting and no pressure, it's something else after 6 or 7 races in 9 days with erratic pacing, several changes of pace and running through traffic in a championship final! The 8 and 15 double is probably the most difficult of all 'doubles', which is why only 1 person has managed it (not counting doper Ramzi) in the last 60 years.

It also has to be asked, how much faster do his carbon plated Nike spikes make him run compared to those that preceded him, even from 20 years ago? I'm not an expert on shoes, but surely if the latest flats are making their athletes break records all over the place on the roads, then there will be a similar pattern on the track? I'm not suggesting Brazier is wearing illegal prototypes, but aren't the latest legal spikes significantly faster than what were being used 20 years ago?

John Macardle wrote:

It absolutely looks more like 2:57 high when Brazier crosses to my eyes, but it isn't worth arguing over.

He's level with the guy in the light blue T-shirt on infield as the clock ticks to 2:58, which is 3.5 - 4m past the 1200m line, the same distance he was behind it when the clock struck 2:57.

At absolute slowest it might have been 2:57.6, but that would make his last 300m 38.25 (38.3), certainly not sub 38.

I don't agree.