It's funny, RW has been participating in this debate all along, and each time they act like they're just learning about a new phenomenon.
Here's the hobby joggers' mascot, John Bingham, reflecting on RW receiving flack for drawing a distinction:
https://www.runnersworld.com/runners-stories/a20807447/find-out-if-youre-a-jogger-or-a-runner/
First item on his list:
"I AM A RUNNER because my runs have names. I do tempo runs and threshold runs and fartlek runs. I do long, slow runs and track workouts. My runs are defined, even if my abs are not."
I run for a lot of reasons, fun, challenge, improvement, goals, competition, stress relief, weight control, etc.
Absent from this list is not being called a hobby jogger. It doesn't matter at all to me if something thinks I'm a good runner, bad runner, jogger, hobby jogger, or whatever.
I think of myself as a runner, but also playfully, as a hobby jogger. I think the term is kinda funny.
Look what he said wrote:
First item on his list:
"I AM A RUNNER because my runs have names. I do tempo runs and threshold runs and fartlek runs. I do long, slow runs and track workouts. My runs are defined, even if my abs are not."
And that was precisely during the period the author wrote about. RW didn't want to say "jog," apparently. But, why not? We all jog at some point. Ever seen the elites in Central Park before the NYC Marathon? They're shuffling along, barely faster than a walk. Jogger is a dumb, tired slight used by people who need to draw a distinction between themselves and others who aren't doing it for a paycheck. Face it, this is a selfish pursuit, and we're all hobbyists unless it pays our bills. We're all joggers. Stop looking down on others.
covidiot wrote:
Look what he said wrote:
First item on his list:
"I AM A RUNNER because my runs have names. I do tempo runs and threshold runs and fartlek runs. I do long, slow runs and track workouts. My runs are defined, even if my abs are not."
And that was precisely during the period the author wrote about. RW didn't want to say "jog," apparently. But, why not? We all jog at some point. Ever seen the elites in Central Park before the NYC Marathon? They're shuffling along, barely faster than a walk. Jogger is a dumb, tired slight used by people who need to draw a distinction between themselves and others who aren't doing it for a paycheck. Face it, this is a selfish pursuit, and we're all hobbyists unless it pays our bills. We're all joggers. Stop looking down on others.
Billy Mills had to pay his own bills, but I wouldn't have called him a hobby jogger. By your definition, Ryun would have been a hobby jogger until he joined a pro league in 1974.
And that was precisely during the period the author wrote about. RW didn't want to say "jog," apparently. But, why not? We all jog at some point. Ever seen the elites in Central Park before the NYC Marathon? They're shuffling along, barely faster than a walk. Jogger is a dumb, tired slight used by people who need to draw a distinction between themselves and others who aren't doing it for a paycheck. Face it, this is a selfish pursuit, and we're all hobbyists unless it pays our bills. We're all joggers. Stop looking down on others.
YES
Givetallugot wrote:
DanM wrote:
Age 60. Male. What are the minimum 5K and 10K times that qualify me as a runner ?
I already addressed this earlier in thread. Time is not the biggest factor. It has more to do with structured training and trying to improve instead of just running the same pace 2-4 times a week.
But some more gifted runners who only run distance will beat their contemporaries who use a more scientific training schedule. So time has to be factored in to any differentiation betweem joggers and runners.
I can remember when I was in my 20s and a competitive runner. I'm 61 now, not competitive.
As Bowerman once said (and probably why he wrote the book called Jogging that kind of started the running boom in the 70s: "the more milk, the more cream you can skim off the top."
If you think you can find all the great distance talent without having a large population of "joggers" starting off, good luck.
You are fast if you are able to improve.
But I've never been a fan of really long races - 100 miles, etc. I'm too lazy. It is much easier to run slow for short distances.
I know someone who trains like a certain YouTuber - only catering to his strengths. He runs about 50 mpw and does mostly speed workouts (8x200, for example), and his “tempos” are at 6:00 pace, but runs a 4:20 mile. He trains like a hobbyjogger but runs well, so I’d call him a hobbyrunner.
I know a few other people who make up their training week to week but that’s not hobbyjogging.
Genny Cream Ale wrote:
"Hobby joggers" advance the sport. Without "hobby joggers," there are no marathon majors, or 95% of road races.
You're correct. What bothers me, and I admit that it's really no big deal but it's the general idea that it's contrary to the sport aspect, is that HJ's see each other as great athletes because they can finish a marathon or ultra and they MUST be good because they can go many miles.
At the same time they don't recognize the faster runners and often don't recognize the work that goes into achieving your limits.
I have a HJ friend who is entered in an ultra in a couple months. She's run about 4-6 miles a week all winter. She posts how she just didn't feel like running today so she did sit ups to get ready for her 50K in May and her friends call her a rock star!!!
There seems to be no respect for the distance or the training and, to them, fast people are just fast, it's not the work they put in.