If they think running is bad, take a look at Nordic Skiing.
If they think running is bad, take a look at Nordic Skiing.
just want to clear this up wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
Another thread that establishes 50% didn't read the article and the other 50% didn't understand it.
So are you part of the 50% that didn't read or the 50% that didn't understand?
I see you're both.
Armstronglivs wrote:
just want to clear this up wrote:
So are you part of the 50% that didn't read or the 50% that didn't understand?
I see you're both.
Hilarious, but I've read the article. It's amazing that you've already determined I didn't understand it even though I haven't shared my opinion.
I am of European descent and both my wife and I come from blue collar families. None of our parents have more than a high school education and both our fathers worked low paying jobs in factories. We both went to public schools, which of course are offered to every single person in America. We worked hard and got into college. We then worked our way through college and accumulated a large student loan debt. After obtaining our college degrees we pursed careers in our fields. We then worked very hard to pay back those loans and provide for our family. Therefore we had no more institutional advantage than any other person in this nation. Do I believe there are horrible racist people? Yes I do and they come in all shapes, sizes, and colors. It’s time to stop making sweeping generalizations about people and instead work hard and be good people.
I'll bite wrote:
Thread Follower III wrote:
Bumped for some responses to the above bolded question.
It would not change my opinion. Here is why:
1) Stolen goods in his car is irrelevant. Arbery having stolen goods does not authorize others to kill him.
2) If the attack occurred after repeatedly being followed and stopped by men with guns, then attacking may have been his only option in his mind.
Come on, if he was truly that worried why not run towards the homes and ask someone to call 911 explaining that there were men with guns trying to kill him??
Armstronglivs wrote:
Thread Follower III wrote:
If it comes out that Arbery had stolen goods in his vehicle, and it is shown on a different video that he attacked the younger McMichael, the one that was holding the shot gun, will you change your opinion?
"If" this and "if" that. You're simply speculating. Also, the guy with the guns were those threatening an unarmed man's life. If Arbery tried to take it off the younger McMichael he was doing so to try to defend himself.
But as I've said elsewhere, they had no justifiable grounds, on what they knew at the time, to make a citizens arrest. All they saw was a black man jogging.
Who's speculating? Don't you see what YOU are saying?!?!?
Star wrote:
I'm mostly offended that they keep switching between the word "jogging" and "running " throughout the article.
The OP's subject line says "jogging".
His first sentence he writes that blacks don't have equal access to "running".
The embedded article title says "Running" has always excluded black people.
Click the link and the headline is "Jogging" has always excluded black people.
From the article:
Free! Easy! Relaxing! That’s how "jogging" was marketed in the late 1960s,
But history shows how untrue that is, and how long the sport of "running" has maintained this fiction.
What the hell?
Are they jogging or running?
We have threads and threads devoted to the distinction.
I think this is the point everybody who is not a racist here is missing (and let's face it, there are some racist trolls in this thread, which I'm always sad to see in LetsRun. But its the Internet--what can you do!)
The author is really talking about the "culture" of Jogging. At one point she notes that there are African American track stars. So she isn't really talking about track and competitive running (which in my experience--I'm white, and middle class, so I recognize that's a bias, but still) is one of the most diverse sports in the world. In fact, that's one of the reasons why I love it--Japan, Mexico, Kenya, Eastern Europe and of course the U.S. all have real stars. Compare that to a whole host of sports, and maybe only soccer is more diverse.
As long as the author is talking about the culture of jogging, I think she's right. Since I think jogging is good for everybody, and also since I think it leads to more interest in track and competitive road running, I wish that publications had reached out for a more diverse audience, I do think that African American joggers in many neighborhoods are regarded with suspicion, and the recent murder highlights this. I think the whole fitness culture--from jogging to more recently cross-fit--is marketed to whites. I think probably this is a perception thing, that, lets face it, is based on racist assumptions about what whites could afford and what blacks can afford. I think that is wrong, and furthermore leaving a lot of money on the table.
But I don't think "jogging" and serious running and track should be painted with the same brush. To the degree that the author does this, she is wrong,
boo boo boooooo
What absolute and total BULLshit.
This is exactly the type of crap turning left of center liberals like myself away. Can't anyone be reasonable anymore without picking some insane polar extreme? WTAF...
Does genetics play a part in this issue.
There is nothing stopping blacks from going on long runs, and no this instance of vigilante gone wrong doesn't prove this writers pathetic point. I heard of a drive by shooting on basketball courts with basketball players a few years ago. And yet basketball is as popular as ever among them.
Running doesn't need to be more "inclusive", because it wasn't ever NOT inclusive. blacks are free to join whenever they want, especially since track and field is so popular among them, they have many opportunities to try distance running as much as sprints and jumps.
Can anyone name one sprinter, jumper, thrower who has turned into a world-class distance runner after they let their ballistic event go?
Do not mention a 400m runner run a mile as the mile is now literally a sprint.
Across wrote:
I am discouraged by most of these responses, and plead to you all to be thoughtful and compassionate. Much of this problem is institutional (no one is accusing you of being actively racist, personally, but that our society is set up in certain ways that makes some things easier for some people than others.).
There is little representation in recreational (hobby jogging). The people you tend to see jogging in the park? White. The pretty fit models that tend to grace JoggersWorld, etc.? White and photo-shopped. The employees at running stores? All young middle-upper class white people. While not a complete barrier, don't underestimate how discouraging this can be.
Secondly, because of this societal history, many people of color live in more economically depressed areas that are unsafe and harder to exercise safely in. This is through no fault of their own - don't underestimate the effect that inherited wealth has (many of these neighborhoods were historically red-lined, and residents forced to be renters and not ever have the opportunity to own property, etc.). This is not to say that other people of other backgrounds also haven't suffered in this country...but just to explain why people of color in many situations might not be comfortable running in their own neighborhoods.
I'm not sure why this is so hard for some people to see. This doesn't mean that black people are never runners, of course not! But it explains, as a whole, some of the systemic issues that make it less likely that they will take up the sport.
This!
Plus the fact that the majority of African Americans originally came from west Africa and not east Africa. Tends to explain doing things you are good at, then you enjoy.
critic 100 wrote:
Can anyone name one sprinter, jumper, thrower who has turned into a world-class distance runner after they let their ballistic event go?
Do not mention a 400m runner run a mile as the mile is now literally a sprint.
Claudia Saunders. Ohio State champ in the 100h trying to make the Olympics in the 800m.
janitor wrote:
But I don't think "jogging" and serious running and track should be painted with the same brush. To the degree that the author does this, she is wrong,
I think this is the indefensible part of the article. It is trying to find relations in things that aren't related.
As far as I understand this article, 3 black men have been killed for being black while running in the last 40 years. This isn't runnings fault. You can get killed being black while doing just about anything.
If anything, 3 in the last 40 years probably makes running one of the safest activities a black man can do.
Not gonna be divided and conquered wrote:
I am of European descent and both my wife and I come from blue collar families. None of our parents have more than a high school education and both our fathers worked low paying jobs in factories. We both went to public schools, which of course are offered to every single person in America. We worked hard and got into college. We then worked our way through college and accumulated a large student loan debt. After obtaining our college degrees we pursed careers in our fields. We then worked very hard to pay back those loans and provide for our family. Therefore we had no more institutional advantage than any other person in this nation. Do I believe there are horrible racist people? Yes I do and they come in all shapes, sizes, and colors. It’s time to stop making sweeping generalizations about people and instead work hard and be good people.
You seem like a decent person, but the idea that you are of European descent and do not have any "more institutional advantage than any other person in this nation." is just fallacious. Learn the history of this nation. It doesn't make you are a bad person because you have certain advantages. What you do with those advantages is far more important in making that determination. But first, you need to look yourself in the mirror and be honest about the country you live in and where your various identities locate you within its hierarchy.
someofmybestfriends wrote:
You seem like a decent person, but the idea that you are of European descent and do not have any "more institutional advantage than any other person in this nation." is just fallacious. Learn the history of this nation. It doesn't make you are a bad person because you have certain advantages. What you do with those advantages is far more important in making that determination. But first, you need to look yourself in the mirror and be honest about the country you live in and where your various identities locate you within its hierarchy.
Although I agree with the sentiment of this I think the wording is unhelpful. Blue-collar families are at disadvantage. The reasons for this are different and do not require the same solutions.
There is intersectionality - it's entirely possible blue-collar white men can face discrimination that middle class black women would not.
Not gonna be divided and conquered wrote:
I am of European descent and both my wife and I come from blue collar families. None of our parents have more than a high school education and both our fathers worked low paying jobs in factories. We both went to public schools, which of course are offered to every single person in America. We worked hard and got into college. We then worked our way through college and accumulated a large student loan debt. After obtaining our college degrees we pursed careers in our fields. We then worked very hard to pay back those loans and provide for our family. Therefore we had no more institutional advantage than any other person in this nation. Do I believe there are horrible racist people? Yes I do and they come in all shapes, sizes, and colors. It’s time to stop making sweeping generalizations about people and instead work hard and be good people.
It's necessary to properly recognize what (dis-)advantage you have and why - something the the above poster didn't acknowledge. White men are not oppressed because they are white or because they are men.
I didn't know all Blacks thought alike.
It’s an opinion piece. Don’t like it? You can leave
Absolutely. This killing actually proves how incredibly rare it is for a black person to be assaulted while running. Yet the media cant help itself. It has an agenda to push every day. Whites are bad (except liberal woke sjw types) . all minorities are victims and oppressed. The truth doesn't matter one iota.
TrueBUTHarsh wrote:
East Coast poor wrote:
I'd like to see data supporting that jogging poses more danger for blacks. One isolated incident isn't going to do it.
The op-ed notes a few other famous incidents, but outside of data, the perception, as reported, by others looking at this question over the years is: generally when you're poor/urban it's not safe to exercise outside of your home. The story below also notes a lack of role models in the sport, which is unfortunate, because the late "Ted Corbitt, was a black American, the grandson of slaves.
You need role models for jogging? Who is a better role model than elite jogger Jamison Michael?