ALBERTO SALAZAR BANNED FROM ATHLETICS FOR FOUR YEARS FOR DOPING VIOLATIONS

Hassan joined in late 2016, I think her first races for them were indoor in early 2017. She had run 3:56 and won global medals before that. I don't think that before her half marathon debut in 2018 any of her performances or improvements with NOP were suspicious. She improved her final kick but still had awkward form and often poor tactics in 2017. In 2018 she improved considerably in the 5000m but for someone who ran 3:57 at 21 (almost three years before NOP) a 14:22 at 25 with more mileage and shifted focus is not miraculous at all.

Her last year since that half marathon is pretty miraculous, but it doesn't seem impossible to me.

Just look at the seemingly endless supply of East african women coming from "nowhere" and running times that would be fabulous for almost every European/US girl from 3000/5000 - Marathon with much larger and quicker improvements. Now take someone who ran 3:57 with 21 and get her the best training and legal supplements, altitude chambers etc. and far more systematic and professional training facilities etc. than the Workus, Feyzas or Gemechus who are running 8:30s/14:30s/sub 31s at 5 years younger with only Ethiopian facilities etc. and I don't think one necessarily needs to assume foul play. (Certainly not some superspecial Salazar kind of foul play.)

on a similar note. It would be interesting to hear. the steps that would be necessary. for an athlete of NOP who is not cheating. if such athlete might exist. to demonstrate innocence.

What would the innocent have to do in order to demonstrate and prove innocence?

Is it even possible to prove innocence?

Even if a person is innocent?

Once the measure of guilt allows for these types of "proof"- They are cheaters because they could be cheaters. They are cheaters because some other people are cheaters. They are cheaters because we do't know how to catch them even if they aren't cheaters. They are cheaters because what they have done is simply statistically impossible. They are cheaters because no amount of monitoring would convince me otherwise. I have never talked to any of them or watched any of them do anything whatsoever related to practice yet this certain "fact" I know- they cheat. etc

how absurd is it that someone like jordan, who must have spent 100s of hours around salazar, is not allowed to say one thing about something good and valuable salazar may have done, to a person who is entirely convinced salazar is simply a cheater and nothing else, but has no direct experience of the man.

What's Your Opinion? wrote:

I understand your logic and analysis of the report. Curious though: Is there any performance(s) by a NOP athlete that makes you at all suspicious? I know it's mentioned many times that "no NOP athlete has ever tested positive" but there were two NOP athletes listed on the WADA "likely doping" hacked document from 2016 (btw, was Hassan with NOP back then?).

There are some posters who aren't suspicious of any NOP athletes (primarily citing the lack of any doping positives) and there are some who are (citing a wide variety of reasons), and of course there are some who don't have an opinion one way or another.

So, do you have an opinion on any of the NOP athletes?

There is no performance by any NOP athlete that made me at all suspicious.

My opinion on NOP athletes is that they did not dope.

In addition to not testing positive we have:

"USADA’s investigation yielded a wide range of evidence referenced in the hearing, including eye-witness proof, testimonies, contemporaneous emails, and patient records. Between the two cases, USADA relied on more than 2,000 exhibits, which the AAA heard along with the defendants’ cases. In all, the proceedings included 30 witnesses and 5,780 pages of transcripts."

What's Your Opinion? wrote:

There are some posters who aren't suspicious of any NOP athletes (primarily citing the lack of any doping positives) and there are some who are (citing a wide variety of reasons), and of course there are some who don't have an opinion one way or another.

Here are some examples of the "wide variety of reasons":

- Salazar estimating that doping gives you 2 minutes in the marathon

- Salazar’s athlete Decker banned for testo doping

- Salazar having testo cream in the athletes’ quarters despite not having a prescription

- Salazar’s testo level dropping after receiving increased testo prescription

- a witness reporting that "Alberto Salazar’s athletes" used "thyroid and testosterone therapy"

- Salazar banned for “Administration of a Prohibited Method (with respect to an infusion in excess of the applicable limit)”

- Salazar banned for “Tampering and/or attempted tampering with NOP athletes’ doping control process”

- Salazar banned for “Trafficking and/or Attempted Trafficking of testosterone”

- USADA’s “Charging Letter also included charges for the administration and attempted administration of testosterone”

- Nike dismantling NOP days after Salazar’s ban was announced

- Mo’s sudden rise from also-ran to unbeatable in 2011

- Mo not opening his door to the tester in 2011/2

- Mo lying about his association with drug cheat coach Aden

- Mo’s "likely doping" status in 2016

- Rupp’s certified “prednisone and testosterone medication”

- Rupp’s surprising rise to the top

- Rupp’s "likely doping" status in 2016

You are correct to say that it is your "opinion" that no NOP athletes doped. It is not and cannot be incontrovertible fact. As a student of logic you will understand that we cannot rule out the possibility that athletes doped, even if the likelihood was that they didn't (which I remain sceptical of). The evidence did not and could not cover Salazar's career as a coach. However, the circumstantial evidence, which was not and could not be part of the USADA case, means further information would be necessary before it could be confidently proclaimed that no NOP athletes doped. That is currently the position of the IOC.

It is not possible. But, hypothetically one could gain more credibility by going all transparent:

- publish all test results

- ask your NADO/IAAF/IOC to publish all your test results

- have all your samples retested, including CIR etc., one year before the statute of limitations

Unfortunately the IAAF would fight such an endeavour because of Coe's anti-transparency stance. See for example here:

Note the "some details" - that doesn't really inspire confidence.

I also remember drug cheat Gay participating in Project Believe - until he was caught doping. He basically ruined Project Believe forever:

Oh, and I forgot to mention earlier in the list of reasons for suspicion that Salazar himself was a testo drug cheat in his running career.

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14:22 at 25 for someone who ran 3:57 at 21 and still was running 3:56 after being coached by Salazar for several years is still astonishing. Mary Decker was a 3:57 runner and ran 14:50s.