Tom “Tinman” Schwartz and Drew Hunter/Tinman Elite have parted ways

How much is being "clean cut" worth in the 5k, 10s? What about hubris, that has gotta be at least 20s?

Grow up dude.

this was 5 years ago. I guess you haven't changed a single bit in that same span? exact same hair cut, same jokes, same favorite foods. Things change bud

How much did Drew miss out on by not going to school and feeding his inner "goofball" when he was 19 instead of looking ridiculous trying to be a frat guy at age 23?

His HS peers, Klecker, Fischer, and McGorty are all looking good right now professionally while holding serious degrees and already had good fun in college.

They are now years beyond Drew in maturity and each hold US oly trial standards at 5k

Fasterer wrote:

shootpost wrote:

How much is being "clean cut" worth in the 5k, 10s? What about hubris, that has gotta be at least 20s?

Grow up dude.

How much did Drew miss out on by not going to school and feeding his inner "goofball" when he was 19 instead of looking ridiculous trying to be a frat guy at age 23?

His HS peers, Klecker, Fischer, and McGorty are all looking good right now professionally while holding serious degrees and already had good fun in college.

They are now years beyond Drew in maturity and each hold US oly trial standards at 5k

You know who as a US title (Klecker, Fischer, and McGorty don't) and isn't clean cut?

Craig Engels.

Yall are a bunch of weirdos.

Fasterer wrote:

shootpost wrote:

How much is being "clean cut" worth in the 5k, 10s? What about hubris, that has gotta be at least 20s?

Grow up dude.

How much did Drew miss out on by not going to school and feeding his inner "goofball" when he was 19 instead of looking ridiculous trying to be a frat guy at age 23?

His HS peers, Klecker, Fischer, and McGorty are all looking good right now professionally while holding serious degrees and already had good fun in college.

They are now years beyond Drew in maturity and each hold US oly trial standards at 5k

"good fun in college" the natural habitat of frats? We all know what that means. Cough! Cough! Anyway, he's going to college now.

Hunter does have the job he's had since graduating high school - professional runner. He also started and runs his own organization that employs people.

` wrote:

I don't really understand why Drew would pay more. Yes, he has more money, but was he getting extra attention, extra special treatment? Was it just a favor to Tinman?

Yes, we heard you the first six times.

If common sense isn't a sufficient explanation for you, think of it in terms of the arrangements that are typical between pro track athletes and their coaches and agents. Agents all work on a percentage basis; with coaches it's a little more varied, but there are plenty that work on a percentage basis. That was apparently part of the issue when Jeremy Wariner split from Clyde Hart, and also when Emma Coburn left Mark Wetmore.

Anyway, the point is: it's relatively common for athletes who are making lots of money to pay their coaches more than athletes who are making little money. In this case, Hunter was making lots of money and (reportedly) had a portion of his contract specifically earmarked for coaching, and also had an interest in building a training group to train with. The other guys were making very little money, and obviously couldn't throw $30,000 each to Schwartz.

There were lots of things wrong with the set-up there (as evidenced by the fact that it ended in tears), but the fact that Hunter was paying more than the other guys for nominally equivalent coaching isn't one of them.

` wrote:

I don't really understand why Drew would pay more. Yes, he has more money, but was he getting extra attention, extra special treatment? Was it just a favor to Tinman?

Drew has a coaching budget from Adidas. And I would hope he was getting extra attention. But I also hope we never know.

The Dirty Duck wrote:

` wrote:

I don't really understand why Drew would pay more. Yes, he has more money, but was he getting extra attention, extra special treatment? Was it just a favor to Tinman?

Drew has a coaching budget from Adidas. And I would hope he was getting extra attention. But I also hope we never know.

And with that coaching budget he also needed to employ a strength and conditioning coach, sports psychologist, sports medicine, nutritionist, and a massage therapist. Tinman is lucky to get what he did.

Tinman charges $150-$200/month for training? How many athletes would he have, 50? 100? 200?

Even if it’s $150/month, wouldn’t be crazy to assume he has 100? That’s 15k month.

I’d say he’s doing quite well with his online deal. Doubt there are many expenses to cost into that either. Seems quite lucrative. Am I missing something?

any truth here wrote:

The Dirty Duck wrote:

Drew has a coaching budget from Adidas. And I would hope he was getting extra attention. But I also hope we never know.

And with that coaching budget he also needed to employ a strength and conditioning coach, sports psychologist, sports medicine, nutritionist, and a massage therapist. Tinman is lucky to get what he did.

Our elites are so soft these days. What happened to having men represent us like Brian Sell? Now we have all these soy boys who think running 100 miles a week without a family and real job is hard work.

Fasterer wrote:

shootpost wrote:

How much is being "clean cut" worth in the 5k, 10s? What about hubris, that has gotta be at least 20s?

Grow up dude.

How much did Drew miss out on by not going to school and feeding his inner "goofball" when he was 19 instead of looking ridiculous trying to be a frat guy at age 23?

His HS peers, Klecker, Fischer, and McGorty are all looking good right now professionally while holding serious degrees and already had good fun in college.

They are now years beyond Drew in maturity and each hold US oly trial standards at 5k

"Olympic standards which is quicker than oly trials standard

Tinman has now learned what McMillian, Hadley, Shea, Hudson and numerous other have learned in the last decade with tried and failed teams. You can not make a living coaching elites and sub-elites without a specific and sizeable contract and team sponsored by a major shoe company.

It takes too much time coaching them to have other full-time employment and there is no money in it to do as a career.

Tinman Elite wanted all Schwartz’s time and not share it with other pursuits he needed to do to earn a living but wouldn’t it couldn’t pay him a living wage for that time. Familiar sad story.

What does a coach really do anyway? For some of us runners, what makes us good or great or whatever is something which is inside of us. Good training partners are probably more important than a good coach also. As Rojo alluded to, Ben True is even willing to pay for that. This is no knock on Tommy.

Flaw in the sport wrote:

Tinman has now learned what McMillian, Hadley, Shea, Hudson and numerous other have learned in the last decade with tried and failed teams. You can not make a living coaching elites and sub-elites without a specific and sizeable contract and team sponsored by a major shoe company.

It takes too much time coaching them to have other full-time employment and there is no money in it to do as a career.

Tinman Elite wanted all Schwartz’s time and not share it with other pursuits he needed to do to earn a living but wouldn’t it couldn’t pay him a living wage for that time. Familiar sad story.

This is actually FALSE. If Tinman provided value, Drew Hunter would have paid him more. Tinman just didn't have the knowledge or expertise to be a full-time pro coach. He was a high school coach in over his head.

Plus Tinman's priorities are all messed up. Why the hell was he working on his doctorate degree in the buildup to an Olympic year? That was costing him money (tuition). Why was he coaching a middle school team? That doesn't pay anything either.

dhdj wrote:

What does a coach really do anyway?

they hold the stopwatch

I think the main issue is COVID. He’s probably extra busy right now because he is finishing up his doctorate and has many deadlines. If COVID had not pushed the olympics an extra year then he wouldn’t be finishing up his doctorate during an Olympic year but the year after.

Flaw in the sport wrote:

Tinman has now learned what McMillian, Hadley, Shea, Hudson and numerous other have learned in the last decade with tried and failed teams. You can not make a living coaching elites and sub-elites without a specific and sizeable contract and team sponsored by a major shoe company.

It takes too much time coaching them to have other full-time employment and there is no money in it to do as a career.

Tinman Elite wanted all Schwartz’s time and not share it with other pursuits he needed to do to earn a living but wouldn’t it couldn’t pay him a living wage for that time. Familiar sad story.

^

^

This

Yet TME are supposedly paying Leslie 100k???? Tinman set them up for success, giving them a brand to build on, coaches them for next to nothing and gets stabbed in the back. Those punks better change that name ASAP.

999. Who will be 1000?

1000