Racket wrote:
a5u wrote:
Did something happen recently? Seriously I noticed that your language on other topics has sometimes been harsher lately than is your wont. I hope you and your family are okay.
He was gonna move out of Ohio and retire to California but got shook by coronavirus.
Oh. Bummer. Yeah that would make me edgy too.
Feel better everybody. This too shall all pass away.
agip wrote:
looks like trump won in the courts - no financial documents likely to be handed over until well after the election.
Trump did win this one.
Which case are you referring to?
agip wrote:
looks like trump won in the courts - no financial documents likely to be handed over until well after the election.
Trump did win this one.
I think it was a long shot by Dems to begin with. Worth a shot I guess, but I doubt there was much riding on it anyways in terms of the Democrat overall strategy.
a5u wrote:
Flagpole wrote:
I am getting tired of this discussion, but I WILL have the last word.
Yeah dude cuz you're acting like a child. :-)
Did something happen recently? Seriously I noticed that your language on other topics has sometimes been harsher lately than is your wont. I hope you and your family are okay.
1) I will have the last word because I am fun like that.
2) Nothing bad has happened recently, no. Harsh language is sometimes warranted. As we are further and further into this Presidency, those who continue to stick by him are more stupid and more horrible every day. Trump and his supporters are poison. Fat Hurts mentioned that Evangelicals pushed back on Trump recently, and that is true that SOME did, but as a group, they are still the core of his base, and the vast majority of them still support him, and they are reason he is in office today. That should not be overlooked. Shame on all of them who continue to support this amoral corrupt man.
Trollminator wrote:
agip wrote:
looks like trump won in the courts - no financial documents likely to be handed over until well after the election.
Trump did win this one.
Which case are you referring to?
two supreme court cases today - on whether trump has to hand over financials to NYS and the US Congress.
the decisions are complicated but pretty much ensure nothing will happen before the election.
But NYS does seem to have some right to get the documents. eventually. Maybe in our lifetimes!
Trollminator wrote:
agip wrote:
looks like trump won in the courts - no financial documents likely to be handed over until well after the election.
Trump did win this one.
Which case are you referring to?
I see you are talking about the one with Congress. Yes, they won't get them until later. But the Manhattan DA will, and there are a couple of investigations that will benefit immediately from that information.
Racket wrote:
Have you guys determined who the true Scotsman is yet?
I heard it was your mother. :)
What's that thing that people on this thread like to say, again?
https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/supreme-court-deals-trump-defeat-141438163.html
Oh yeah - So much winning!
Trollminator wrote:
Trollminator wrote:
Which case are you referring to?
I see you are talking about the one with Congress. Yes, they won't get them until later. But the Manhattan DA will, and there are a couple of investigations that will benefit immediately from that information.
NYS is not getting the documents any time soon, from what I can tell.
New York State AG and Manhattan DA are gleeful at this point! Even if Trump resigns and Pence grants a blanket pardon, he will face state charges. I hope that tail was worth it, Donny! Your clumsy attempts to hide your horndog ways will destroy you, your family, and your businesses.
We're also going to find out that Trump is NOT as rich as he claims to be and the unsavory characters to whom he owes a lot of money. That will leak as soon as he exhausts his last ditch legal appeals fail. At this point, he is better off leaving the WH and fleeing the country before this can make its way through the courts again.
agip wrote:
Trollminator wrote:
This is really awful news for trump, awful. It was not even close, a 7-2 SC vote. Manhattan DA is now going to have a lot of fun with his records.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/09/supreme-court-trump-tax-records.htmlthere will be another scotus decision later today on whether congress can get records.
btw the manhattan case is based on ol'Stormy Daniels. That was a screw-up Donny.
I think it's fair for the DA to get the tax records, but I'm not for the House getting them. As much of a POS as Trump is, there was no rule that he had to provide his taxes to be President, and I don't buy the reasoning House Democrats are giving for needing them. It would have been more powerful for Democrats to just play the any clips of Trump saying he would release his taxes and that he would be proud to release them...and then of course mention that he lied about that.
agip wrote:
Trollminator wrote:
I see you are talking about the one with Congress. Yes, they won't get them until later. But the Manhattan DA will, and there are a couple of investigations that will benefit immediately from that information.
NYS is not getting the documents any time soon, from what I can tell.
Both decisions were 7-2, with the 4 liberals siding with Roberts, Kavanaugh and Gorsuch. Alito and Thomas dissented on both decisions.
agip wrote:
Trollminator wrote:
I see you are talking about the one with Congress. Yes, they won't get them until later. But the Manhattan DA will, and there are a couple of investigations that will benefit immediately from that information.
NYS is not getting the documents any time soon, from what I can tell.
They are but won't be made public due to grand jury secrecy rules... I doubt the pending cases will conclude by election so yeah we won't be seeing them. I think the NY cases are basically being organized to blow up when he's out of the WH.
Trollminator wrote:
Trollminator wrote:
Naturally there should be room for at least 3 parties - right, moderate and left. Lincoln project folks (I'll call them the RINOs for now) could run away with 15-20% of the GOP base for starters and probably 5% of Dems. Long term success may depend on how much to the left the Dem party shifts, as older voters may not be willing to go along with more progressive ideas. Anyway, trump has opened up an opportunity to challenge the 2-party system, as he's pretty much broken the traditional conservative principle model. While I recognize a third party for moderate conservatives may fracture some of the Dem party, I think it would be great for our system and would provide yet another check that seems is desperately needed. So when the AOC and Ted Cruz types (no I'm not comparing them) start to push for new ideas, their parties need to convince the moderates to play along in order to progress with their agenda.
To comment further, there just isn't enough competitiveness in a 2-party system. It has created systemic complacency and allowed for infinite tactics for the parties to actually not serve the public. They need to fight for their jobs and the privilege to continue serving, and not just sit back waiting for the party in power to inevitably fail without their support.
I absolutely agree, although I would argue the issues run even deeper, stemming from the forced dichotomy that a two-party system demands. Those on the right can demonize anything from the left by brushing it off as "socialism", when in reality there are principles that would be beneficial for the US (i.e. single payer healthcare) that would not turn the government into a socialist regime. On the other hand, there are principles of conservatism, namely low tax rates, that are hugely beneficial for a capitalist society at all levels. The idea that we must choose between one or the other. conservatism and liberalism, is hugely detrimental, when in reality a better system would draw principles from both.
Racket wrote:
a5u wrote:
Yeah dude cuz you're acting like a child. :-)
Did something happen recently? Seriously I noticed that your language on other topics has sometimes been harsher lately than is your wont. I hope you and your family are okay.
He was gonna move out of Ohio and retire to California but got shook by coronavirus.
Not ready to move there just yet. Still the plan eventually.
Flagpole wrote:
Racket wrote:
Have you guys determined who the true Scotsman is yet?
I heard it was your mother. :)
lol settle down Donald
Libertarian Centrist. wrote:
Trollminator wrote:
To comment further, there just isn't enough competitiveness in a 2-party system. It has created systemic complacency and allowed for infinite tactics for the parties to actually not serve the public. They need to fight for their jobs and the privilege to continue serving, and not just sit back waiting for the party in power to inevitably fail without their support.
I absolutely agree, although I would argue the issues run even deeper, stemming from the forced dichotomy that a two-party system demands. Those on the right can demonize anything from the left by brushing it off as "socialism", when in reality there are principles that would be beneficial for the US (i.e. single payer healthcare) that would not turn the government into a socialist regime. On the other hand, there are principles of conservatism, namely low tax rates, that are hugely beneficial for a capitalist society at all levels. The idea that we must choose between one or the other. conservatism and liberalism, is hugely detrimental, when in reality a better system would draw principles from both.
I suppose any third party would have to convince voters that they don't have to think in a binary way... not an easy task
Trollminator wrote:
I think the NY cases are basically being organized to blow up when he's out of the WH.
I agree.
Trollminator wrote:
agip wrote:
NYS is not getting the documents any time soon, from what I can tell.
They are but won't be made public due to grand jury secrecy rules... I doubt the pending cases will conclude by election so yeah we won't be seeing them. I think the NY cases are basically being organized to blow up when he's out of the WH.
Skimmed the NYS decision. If I read it correctly, it's a loss for Trump.
In the NYS case, the issues were limited to whether the President has absolute immunity from a state court subpoena and whether a heightened need for the materials needs to be demonstrated. Roberts stressed that his decision was limited to these two issues, and on both issues, he ruled against Trump. However, Trump is still free to raise other challenges to the subpoena when the case goes back to state court.
Also, even if or when the tax returns are turned over to the Manhattan DA, there's no guarantee they will ever be disclosed publicly.
I think we're all seeing how Trump has survived for 50 years of lawbreaking - he throws millions of dollars at the legal system and stalls and stalls and stalls until the cows come home.
Dude is a huge survivor.
One interesting comment I saw - It's been argued that trump hates being POTUS but has to so he won't be investigated. But now this case seems to say that even if he is president he can be subpoenaed and investigated. So it's a reason for him to quit and not run for reelection.