Official LRC President Donald J Trump Thread

agip wrote:

Fat hurts wrote:

No way they accept Harris because of her skin color. Progressives are not that shallow. They are extremely informed and dedicated to their ideals. Consequently, they are more idealistic than any faction of any party right now. I know some who are voting for the Green Party candidate because Bernie lost.

It's true that most progressives will hold their noses and vote for Biden. But they will fight him every step of the way once he is in office. And progressives today are more powerful and more energized than ever.

just a reminder here that Joe Biden is running the most left-leaning campaign in the history of the Democratic Party.

I don't want to say that much because it will energize the Republicans, but it's a fact.

So saying Joe is somehow opposed to 'progressive' views is really a bit unfair.

It's not unfair at all. Progressives believe that Biden is indeed opposed to progressive views.

If he selects Harris as his VP then we will all know that progressives are right in their skepticism. It will be a sign that we will not get universal health care and there will be no meaningful action on police reform, climate change, or corporate greed.

Fat hurts wrote:

agip wrote:

If the fillibuster stays, NOTHING will get done. The Rs will just vote everything down. They absolutely love doing nothing with government. Rs will be out for blood after losing all 3 branches of government.

I think it's time for the fillibuster to go. It's a majority rule country. Not a super-majority country.

Did you really mean to say the Rs would lose all three branches? How will they lose the judicial branch?

I agree that the filibuster should go. It's time to have a government that actually governs.

I’m sure he meant WH, senate and congress. How can they yank the filibuster?

I think it’s very hard to figure out just how much of the left is split into more liberal policies vs moderate. I could see a lot of people having voted for Bernie thinking he had a better shot at beating trump. So what % of the left would you say want more radical change?

This all makes me feel very nervous about ongoing division in this country. Without a united left the GOP can continue to produce important wins and ensure nothing gets done. We all have been horrified at their unequivocal support for trump and unity is attacking the opposition, but that is exactly how you get things done. People will have to be patient and supportive as Biden cleans up some the trump mess which will take up much of his first term. How can we get Dems to be vicious attackers and remain on the offense after winning? This is what it will take if we want to come back to the WH in 2024.

Dan Kahneman wrote:

Biden initially will be a loved president stepping in after trump. [But] it won't last. He will be under a pressure cooker in his own party and he will not have the complete loyalty and fear from his own party like trump.

Indeed it won't last, but I doubt his own party will be the main problem.

Whoever is going to be President in 2021-2 will be saddled with an economy that's in very bad shape. The events that caused that will have been in this current term, but some of their effects won't show up until the next. And whoever is POTUS then will get much of the blame.

How do we know? Because the events in 2008 had some effects that didn't show until 2009. Remember that the economy (employment, etc.) *continued* to deteriorate well into 2009, and large numbers of people blamed Obama, regardless of that continued decline's having been set in motion in 2008. Putin's Mitch, for one, built on that when he said that his major ambition was to make BHO a one-term president.

Because Obama was re-elected after all, there's a tendency to think that re-election was inevitable. Peope forget that for a very substantial part of his first term it looked like that could well be his *only* term.

this is tricky.

sure, biden and bernie have differences. But Bernie's positions are absurd.

Environment:

Biden has a concrete, doable, very expensive plan. Could happen.

Bernie has the green new deal. Which isn't even a plan - it's a set of ideals that is impossible to enact.

Student debt:

Biden: Free JC and trade school. This could happen

Bernie: Cancel all student debt, free state college. That can't happen.

Imprisonment:

Biden: vague talk of federal incentives. I dunno - he does need to work on this one.

Bernie: Cut the jailed population by half. This can't possibly happen.

See where I'm going? Yeah, there is space between bernie and Joe. Because many of Bernie's positions are completely impossible to enact. He is a fantasist who it's hard to take seriously. Whereas Joe can actually get things done if he had the senate. Comparing the two is not fair...it's hard to take Bernie seriously on many issues.

Trollminator wrote:

This all makes me feel very nervous about ongoing division in this country. Without a united left the GOP can continue to produce important wins and ensure nothing gets done.

Right. That's the crux of my argument. Warren as VP will help to unify the left. And without a unified left, we lose ground in 2022 and nothing gets done.

We have to understand that the coalition that will defeat the m@ga-babies in 2020 can quickly crumble in 2021.

There is nothing absurd about any of Bernie's positions. They do all those things in Europe and there is no reason why we couldn't do them here.

And if we don't take real meaningful action right now on climate change the human race will be extinct in 100 years.

As for what can get through congress, that's anyone's guess. But get rid of the filibuster and then grant DC and Puerto Rico the statehood they deserve. At that point anything is possible.

Fat hurts wrote:

Trollminator wrote:

This all makes me feel very nervous about ongoing division in this country. Without a united left the GOP can continue to produce important wins and ensure nothing gets done.

Right. That's the crux of my argument. Warren as VP will help to unify the left. And without a unified left, we lose ground in 2022 and nothing gets done.

We have to understand that the coalition that will defeat the m@ga-babies in 2020 can quickly crumble in 2021.

I dunno Fats...you seem to think that the hard left is more important than it actually is.

Note that moderate HRC won the nomination in 2016. Note that moderates won the House for

the Ds in 2018. Note that moderate Biden easily won the nomination in 2020. The hard left...won a couple of House seats and Bernie won CA and a few other states.

The parts of the party that are the most important to keep on board in 2020:

White suburban women

African Americans

These are not hard left constituencies, although it's a spectrum.

The hard left is loud but small. AOC, Bernie, sorta Warren....and that's it. Vs. a giant mass of centrists. Pelosi, Joe, Schumer, Schiff, Clyburn, Amy K, etc.

no they don't. Come on man.

I agree with the mess he inherits and the problems that will create, but he will still get a level of conflict within his own party the level of which Trump didn't have to deal with. By nature, Republicans are an authoritative group and will march in line with party expectancy. Democrats are more free spirits.

(thanks for the correction)

verdad.

I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a Democrat.

Will Rogers (probably)

agip wrote:

Fat hurts wrote:

There is nothing absurd about any of Bernie's positions. They do all those things in Europe and there is no reason why we couldn't do them here.

And if we don't take real meaningful action right now on climate change the human race will be extinct in 100 years.

As for what can get through congress, that's anyone's guess. But get rid of the filibuster and then grant DC and Puerto Rico the statehood they deserve. At that point anything is possible.

no they don't. Come on man.

Biden hasn't even won yet and the party conflict begins.

Trollminator wrote:

Fat hurts wrote:

Did you really mean to say the Rs would lose all three branches? How will they lose the judicial branch?

I agree that the filibuster should go. It's time to have a government that actually governs.

I’m sure he meant WH, senate and congress. . .

I'm going to go with WH, Senate and House.

Fat hurts wrote:

. . .

And if we don't take real meaningful action right now on climate change the human race will be extinct in 100 years. . .

Oh Fats, Fats, Fats . . . (sigh)

We're all with you on this one. But you sounding like a nut case does not help the cause.

Yeah, yeah, I already know your response. I've read it from you a hundred times. This will make a hundred and one. It's quite a bit like talking with Flagpole on any topic.

Anyway, have a good day!

1100 wrote:

Fat hurts wrote:

. . .

And if we don't take real meaningful action right now on climate change the human race will be extinct in 100 years. . .

Oh Fats, Fats, Fats . . . (sigh)

We're all with you on this one. But you sounding like a nut case does not help the cause.

Yeah, yeah, I already know your response. I've read it from you a hundred times. This will make a hundred and one. It's quite a bit like talking with Flagpole on any topic.

Anyway, have a good day!

What the hell did I do?

Things are changing fast agip. And there are lots of white suburban women and African Americans on the hard left.

Bernie almost won the Democratic primary. If you don't think his performance is significant you are totally blind.

agip wrote:

Fat hurts wrote:

There is nothing absurd about any of Bernie's positions. They do all those things in Europe and there is no reason why we couldn't do them here.

And if we don't take real meaningful action right now on climate change the human race will be extinct in 100 years.

As for what can get through congress, that's anyone's guess. But get rid of the filibuster and then grant DC and Puerto Rico the statehood they deserve. At that point anything is possible.

no they don't. Come on man.

They do and you know it well.

Europe's incarceration rate is less than a quarter of the US. So we could easily cut our prison population in half.

Public colleges are free in many European countries.

Health care is universal in all European countries.

Europe is far ahead of the rest of the world on climate change and they are getting more and more aggressive all the time.

Bernie's policies are very doable. We know that because they are already implemented in Europe.

Bernie almost won the Democratic primary? Now come on Fats! I think you have to walk that one back.

Fat hurts wrote:

agip wrote:

no they don't. Come on man.

They do and you know it well.

Europe's incarceration rate is less than a quarter of the US. So we could easily cut our prison population in half.

Public colleges are free in many European countries.

Health care is universal in all European countries.

Europe is far ahead of the rest of the world on climate change and they are getting more and more aggressive all the time.

Bernie's policies are very doable. We know that because they are already implemented in Europe.

well we're each picking and choosing policies.

No country has written off more than a trillion dollars of student debt

No country has enacted anything resembling the green new deal

No (functioning) country has reduced a large prison population by half

and in a broad sense, no functioning country has so changed its course from center right to...whatever it is that bernie wants to do.