Do you think you could get the kind of study? Fisky is asking for through an IRB? I don’t. If you did get it through an IRB, how many people would volunteer for the kind of study Fisky envisions. Not many. Finally, as you mentioned, this is exactly what randomization is for.
This thread was deleted by a volunteer moderator. I certainly don't want a thread this big deleted so I've restored. THat being said, this thread has served it's purpose. I've closed it to new posts.
We have a new 2024 vaccine thread here. New people don't need to try to wade through 20,000 posts to figure out what is going on.
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trashcan wrote:
Do you think you could get the kind of study? Fisky is asking for through an IRB? I don’t. If you did get it through an IRB, how many people would volunteer for the kind of study Fisky envisions. Not many. Finally, as you mentioned, this is exactly what randomization is for.
If you came to an IRB with biochemical or animal model data that said:
1) other treatments interfere with IVM treatment in a way that not only masks it, but makes the outcome worse than IVM alone (and this signal is small enough that we cannot detect it from simple randomization). This seems like a ... high bar.
2) We get informed consent from only young, healthy people (not putting at-risk people at more risk by denying standard of care)
You could probably start a study! Good luck though!
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Like Paxlovid is only prescribed in 'at-risk' cases now anyway.
So you'd need to tell people when they are sick and at higher risk of severe outcomes: "We have a drug that works well and will lessen your symptoms that you qualify for, or you can try this other drug that likely doesnt work based on all previous trial data... but you cannot take both!"
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2600 bro wrote:
Like Paxlovid is only prescribed in 'at-risk' cases now anyway.
So you'd need to tell people when they are sick and at higher risk of severe outcomes: "We have a drug that works well and will lessen your symptoms that you qualify for, or you can try this other drug that likely doesnt work based on all previous trial data... but you cannot take both!"
Actually, they're going to offer you one of the two randomly and you won't know that you got IVM until you're intubated and dying. Quality medicine.
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Most recent paper funded by the CDC. If you read it thoroughly, it’s almost as if they are saying natural immunity (convalescence) is just as good as and lasts longer than the primary series plus a booster against all variants, including Omicron (the same will be true of all Omicron sub-lineages, it will just take them another year or two to publish it when nobody cares). Who knew?
“COVID-19 mRNA vaccination and/or prior SARS-CoV-2 infection provided protection against COVID-19-associated hospitalizations and ED/UC encounters regardless of variant.”
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Covidiocy wrote:
Most recent paper funded by the CDC. If you read it thoroughly, it’s almost as if they are saying natural immunity (convalescence) is just as good as and lasts longer than the primary series plus a booster against all variants, including Omicron (the same will be true of all Omicron sub-lineages, it will just take them another year or two to publish it when nobody cares). Who knew?
“COVID-19 mRNA vaccination and/or prior SARS-CoV-2 infection provided protection against COVID-19-associated hospitalizations and ED/UC encounters regardless of variant.”
Three vaccines plus infection is still considered optimal, but it’s pretty dang negligible, the difference. The primary series alone was not great, which, in hindsight (well, foresight for some of us) we already knew.
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Covidiocy wrote:
Covidiocy wrote:
Most recent paper funded by the CDC. If you read it thoroughly, it’s almost as if they are saying natural immunity (convalescence) is just as good as and lasts longer than the primary series plus a booster against all variants, including Omicron (the same will be true of all Omicron sub-lineages, it will just take them another year or two to publish it when nobody cares). Who knew?
“COVID-19 mRNA vaccination and/or prior SARS-CoV-2 infection provided protection against COVID-19-associated hospitalizations and ED/UC encounters regardless of variant.”
Three vaccines plus infection is still considered optimal, but it’s pretty dang negligible, the difference. The primary series alone was not great, which, in hindsight (well, foresight for some of us) we already knew.
Unvaccinated + infection is worse than 3 doses in both fig 1 and 2. Everyone understood that strain evolution required a booster.
This confirms the vaccines are better. Cheers for the result.
Anyway, the point you think you are making is not one anyone has really argued. Pre-omicron, infection was quite good immunity. Post omicron its godawful breadth and average protection. Vaccination has only gotten more valuable in the omicron era.
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When a patient shows up for a scheduled surgery then dies &/or when there is a possible error, by a healthcare professional, there will be a hospital M & M conference, Morbidity & Mortality.
You posted something but you did not realize what you posted left a hole in your argument. Your post stated correlation of vaccine to reduced probability of positive covid. Your post did NOT state a diminished mortality rate due to covid boosters.
Boosters for healthy individuals under age 50 is a racket. Try harder or give up.
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Harambe wrote:
Covidiocy wrote:
Three vaccines plus infection is still considered optimal, but it’s pretty dang negligible, the difference. The primary series alone was not great, which, in hindsight (well, foresight for some of us) we already knew.
Unvaccinated + infection is worse than 3 doses in both fig 1 and 2. Everyone understood that strain evolution required a booster.
This confirms the vaccines are better. Cheers for the result.
Anyway, the point you think you are making is not one anyone has really argued. Pre-omicron, infection was quite good immunity. Post omicron its godawful breadth and average protection. Vaccination has only gotten more valuable in the omicron era.
But not by much at all, hence why I said “almost.” Against Omicron. Figure 2 is pretty clear. Especially when stacked against vaccination but no infection. And the vax-induced immunity wanes faster than natural immunity, so I don’t know that I would argue it’s better. Hence the very generic conclusion that vaccines or natural immunity are both quite good, regardless of the variant. This is the CDC slowly admitting that you are probably good with your natural immunity but we have to keep with our default narrative of “stay up to date w your boosters.” It’s dumb. Endemicity is here and we can treat the high risk.
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morbidity AND mortality wrote:
When a patient shows up for a scheduled surgery then dies &/or when there is a possible error, by a healthcare professional, there will be a hospital M & M conference, Morbidity & Mortality.
You posted something but you did not realize what you posted left a hole in your argument. Your post stated correlation of vaccine to reduced probability of positive covid. Your post did NOT state a diminished mortality rate due to covid boosters.
Boosters for healthy individuals under age 50 is a racket. Try harder or give up.
The only argument you have is that the correlation is not causative. Nobody suggested as much.
You have failed to provide even a minorly compelling alternative explanation.
The strong correlation remains, obvious in multiple independent datasets.
Vaccine is associated with lower all cause and cardiac mortality. As well as severe COVID (obviously). In all age groups.45 -
morbidity AND mortality wrote:
When a patient shows up for a scheduled surgery then dies &/or when there is a possible error, by a healthcare professional, there will be a hospital M & M conference, Morbidity & Mortality.
You posted something but you did not realize what you posted left a hole in your argument. Your post stated correlation of vaccine to reduced probability of positive covid. Your post did NOT state a diminished mortality rate due to covid boosters.
Boosters for healthy individuals under age 50 is a racket. Try harder or give up.
Bro, I agree. Your last sentences are exactly as I feel and have felt for years. Ask anyone here. Risk stratification should’ve been employed by our public health “authorities,” but it was not based on very flimsy data.
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Covidiocy wrote:
But not by much at all, hence why I said “almost.”
When you shift from arguing superiority to non-inferiority so quickly, it’s obvious where the true answer lies.
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Harambe wrote:
Covidiocy wrote:
But not by much at all, hence why I said “almost.”
When you shift from arguing superiority to non-inferiority so quickly, it’s obvious where the true answer lies.
That’s not what I did. Natural immunity is almost as good as, wait for it… natural immunity plus THREE vaccines. And it doesn’t wane as quickly. Hmmm.
Morever, vaccine efficacy from the bivalent after a mere 4-5 months is awful.
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Covidiocy wrote:
But not by much at all, hence why I said “almost.” Against Omicron. Figure 2 is pretty clear. Especially when stacked against vaccination but no infection. And the vax-induced immunity wanes faster than natural immunity, so I don’t know that I would argue it’s better. Hence the very generic conclusion that vaccines or natural immunity are both quite good, regardless of the variant. This is the CDC slowly admitting that you are probably good with your natural immunity but we have to keep with our default narrative of “stay up to date w your boosters.” It’s dumb. Endemicity is here and we can treat the high risk.
Read the story I posted about the assisted living facility in Portland, Maine. I expect public health officials will respond with the tired old saw about keeping up to date with boosters despite the fact that more and more people are coming to the realization that the mRNA goop is woefully ineffective and potentially harmful.
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Yikes!
"safe & effective"
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Ghost of Disco Gary wrote:
Yikes!
"safe & effective"
The most striking findings come from Seamus Coffey, an economics lecturer in University College Cork. Based on death notices from the website Rip.ie, he estimates that 9,718 people died in the eight weeks up to January 25.
That’s an increase of around 20pc over the same period during 2021 and 2022, when Covid was still raging. It’s over 40pc more than the pre-pandemic year of 2019. All this ties in with anecdotal reports of funerals getting delayed, mortuaries under pressure and bodies being stored in hospitals until space becomes available.12 -
After the vaccine was made mandatory, cardiac events for military pilots continued to increase in 2121 and 2022.
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"After the FAA decided to loosen the cardiac standards for pilots…I looked in the DMED, These are the reportable events for all pilots in DoD. DOD Reportable Event: death, perm harm or severe temp harm." - see source link below
2016—265
2017—252
2018—164
2019—223
2020—2,194
2021—2,861
2022–4,05932 -
How's it going everybody?
Been a while since I posted on this thread... seems the evidence against the jab is reaching avalanche-proportions.
Has anybody seen the latest Medicare data?
The jabs are an unmitigated disaster.
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uhhhh.. wrote:
How's it going everybody?
Been a while since I posted on this thread... seems the evidence against the jab is reaching avalanche-proportions.
Has anybody seen the latest Medicare data?
The jabs are an unmitigated disaster.
A disaster for our health.
Perhaps successful for their intent
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