This thread was deleted by a volunteer moderator. I certainly don't want a thread this big deleted so I've restored. THat being said, this thread has served it's purpose. I've closed it to new posts.
We have a new 2024 vaccine thread here. New people don't need to try to wade through 20,000 posts to figure out what is going on.
Yes thats the paper he cited... It's not super informative that a serine protease can modify/digest over-expressed surface proteins such that they no longer stain with antibody.
Again how do you propose getting this functional enzyme in you systemically (hint: the stomach isnt going to work)? This is just McCullough taking you for a ride. It's an inane idea that has a single experiment paper which he can use to pseduo-scientifically back it up.. crank out a substack piece... and move on.
Anything can have a plausible biological/biochemical explanation... that's the easy part. Showing it works in living organisms is like 20 orders of magnitude harder. I'll spoil this one for you... nattokinase supplementation does nothing for COVID infection or "vaccine detox."
I take your point, I really do. We don’t totally speak different languages. In vitro is way easier to do than in vivo, yes, true. But, by your analysis, the medical authorities and doctors are wrong to prescribe aspirin for a heart attack then.
Nattokinase may only degrade spike in vitro, but, it surely works as an anti-coagulant and fibrinolytic agent. Surely antivirals like Paxlovid aren’t totally rendered ineffective before their chemical constituents become bioavailable… That also doesn’t make them necessary either.
I mean we can get into the details... Nattokinase is a protein... There is a reason why almost all protein drugs are delivered into the blood.
Very very few proteins survive the stomach. Pepsin, primarily, with tons of hydrochloric acid (to denature) rips up almost any protein/polypeptide in the stomach - additional proteins cannot get through the membranes of the stomach lining so they are forced sit and bear the brunt of hungry digestive enzymes.
Small molecules like aspirin or paxlovid are usually much more stable in the stomach (or formulated in casings to protect it), and can pass through the stomach lining before the acid and enzymes chew them up.
There are select enzymes (like pepsin, duh) that fold stably enough, and are acid insensitive, and can thus survive the stomach, but they are very rare.
Usually wacky people that think dietary enzyme supplementation does something will take the enzymes packaged in gel caps or whatever to allow them to get into the small intestine unscathed, where they can presumably do stuff. Very few enzymes can then cross the small intestinal wall and do something systemically, but it can happen.
Get a free Fauci bobblehead with your next "booster".
It is indeed happy days for us Dan. We were supposed to have dropped dead by heart attacks and strokes according to the desperate wishes of antivaxxers, but we're still here somehow, to the delicious devastation of said antivaxxers. Life is great!
I’m just curious, why all the vitriol? We are well on our way to endemicity, with vaccination, hybrid immunity, and plain old fashioned natural immunity paving the way. Why should anyone wish ill will toward the other? It was your choice to get the vaccines based on your read of the risk/reward. It was my choice not to. There is no more evidence that the “anti-vaxxers” were anymore responsible for variant evolution than the vaccinated, and, especially the immunocompromised, vaccinated.
Why do you despise someone who, as not being in a high risk group and with a decent grasp of the literature, elected to remain in the control group? Someone who likely has equivalent or better immunity than yourself? Someone who was never opposed to the vaccines for the groups we knew were high risk? We don’t know what we don’t know and can’t find what we aren’t looking for. At least Harambe and 2600 post some science but you just spew bull$hit and mockery and vitriol. Why is that? What do you actually bring to the table? I don’t wish for your SADS.
I take your point, I really do. We don’t totally speak different languages. In vitro is way easier to do than in vivo, yes, true. But, by your analysis, the medical authorities and doctors are wrong to prescribe aspirin for a heart attack then.
Nattokinase may only degrade spike in vitro, but, it surely works as an anti-coagulant and fibrinolytic agent. Surely antivirals like Paxlovid aren’t totally rendered ineffective before their chemical constituents become bioavailable… That also doesn’t make them necessary either.
I mean we can get into the details... Nattokinase is a protein... There is a reason why almost all protein drugs are delivered into the blood.
Very very few proteins survive the stomach. Pepsin, primarily, with tons of hydrochloric acid (to denature) rips up almost any protein/polypeptide in the stomach - additional proteins cannot get through the membranes of the stomach lining so they are forced sit and bear the brunt of hungry digestive enzymes.
Small molecules like aspirin or paxlovid are usually much more stable in the stomach (or formulated in casings to protect it), and can pass through the stomach lining before the acid and enzymes chew them up.
There are select enzymes (like pepsin, duh) that fold stably enough, and are acid insensitive, and can thus survive the stomach, but they are very rare.
Usually wacky people that think dietary enzyme supplementation does something will take the enzymes packaged in gel caps or whatever to allow them to get into the small intestine unscathed, where they can presumably do stuff. Very few enzymes can then cross the small intestinal wall and do something systemically, but it can happen.
Ok great post. But, it isn’t that simple and ubiquitous:
Intraduodenal administration of nattokinase (NK) at a dose of 80 mg/kg, resulted in the degradation of fibrinogen in plasma suggesting transport of NK across the intestinal tract in normal rats. The action of NK on the cleava...
To determine whether the antihypertensive effect of nattokinase is associated with the protease activity of this enzyme, we compared nattokinase with the fragments derived from nattokinase, which possessed no protease activit...
I mean we can get into the details... Nattokinase is a protein... There is a reason why almost all protein drugs are delivered into the blood.
Very very few proteins survive the stomach. Pepsin, primarily, with tons of hydrochloric acid (to denature) rips up almost any protein/polypeptide in the stomach - additional proteins cannot get through the membranes of the stomach lining so they are forced sit and bear the brunt of hungry digestive enzymes.
Small molecules like aspirin or paxlovid are usually much more stable in the stomach (or formulated in casings to protect it), and can pass through the stomach lining before the acid and enzymes chew them up.
There are select enzymes (like pepsin, duh) that fold stably enough, and are acid insensitive, and can thus survive the stomach, but they are very rare.
Usually wacky people that think dietary enzyme supplementation does something will take the enzymes packaged in gel caps or whatever to allow them to get into the small intestine unscathed, where they can presumably do stuff. Very few enzymes can then cross the small intestinal wall and do something systemically, but it can happen.
Ok great post. But, it isn’t that simple and ubiquitous:
It's a bit odd isn't it? Like China and their TCM-to-journal fascination, a few Japanese scientists have become fascinated with this protease from the Bacillus species on soybeans..
Paper 1) they inject the protein solution directly into the small intestine, (Intraduodenal administration)
Paper 2) is all over the place and does directly show that nattokinase is functionally responsible any of the observed effects. Their method for generating NK "fragments" is very suspect, and they don't show their fragment case contains any actual NK peptides... but it still reduces blood pressure, just as much as the diet containing intact NK.
This seems like a pharmalogical dead end and I suspect every industry connection thought the same.
It is indeed happy days for us Dan. We were supposed to have dropped dead by heart attacks and strokes according to the desperate wishes of antivaxxers, but we're still here somehow, to the delicious devastation of said antivaxxers. Life is great!
I’m just curious, why all the vitriol? We are well on our way to endemicity, with vaccination, hybrid immunity, and plain old fashioned natural immunity paving the way. Why should anyone wish ill will toward the other? It was your choice to get the vaccines based on your read of the risk/reward. It was my choice not to. There is no more evidence that the “anti-vaxxers” were anymore responsible for variant evolution than the vaccinated, and, especially the immunocompromised, vaccinated.
umm that's not vitriol. The fact that you continue to play the victim is telling.
The EU's latest periodic safety report is in and it shows damning details on vaccine adverse effects that were known about for years. Investigative journalis...
California Gov. Gavin Newsom signed AB 2098 by Assemblyman Evan Low (D-Campbell), which will punish physicians and surgeons for “unprofessional conduct”
Too bad those "vaccines" do not prevent infection.
Indeed it is unfortunate that the vaccines are not perfect protection, but they have been shown to mitigate cardiac adverse events following infection:
Too bad those "vaccines" do not prevent infection.
Indeed it is unfortunate that the vaccines are not perfect protection, but they have been shown to mitigate cardiac adverse events following infection:
Also, isn’t “pro-science,” pro-variant Hunter Topol one of the biggest beneficiaries of NIH funding (Fauci)? What do we think he’s going to publish? Wasn’t he on Gilead’s board when they were pushing Remdesivir during early Covid patient protocols, sometimes after the viral replication cycle was complete? I don’t have answers, only questions.
Yes, have you noticed how much of the MSM is “normalizing” heart disease in young people even not tying it to Covid? I just read an article yesterday how heart disease is common in 20 and 30 somethings now due to poor diet, stress, phone time, vaping, etc. Basically, grooming society to accept this new norm, but then also saying it’s due to Covid. Very fishy.
Yes, have you noticed how much of the MSM is “normalizing” heart disease in young people even not tying it to Covid? I just read an article yesterday how heart disease is common in 20 and 30 somethings now due to poor diet, stress, phone time, vaping, etc. Basically, grooming society to accept this new norm, but then also saying it’s due to Covid. Very fishy.
I haven't noticed this at all. Heart disease stats seem basically flat. I would expect COVID to have a mild effect since it infected basically everyone and definitely can cause long term heart complications.
Any complications from the vaccine have been shown to be transient and mild compared to complications from COVID, even in young people.
'People making arguments you don't agree with' is not 'grooming' especially when they have 'evidence.'
Indeed it is unfortunate that the vaccines are not perfect protection, but they have been shown to mitigate cardiac adverse events following infection:
Also, isn’t “pro-science,” pro-variant Hunter Topol one of the biggest beneficiaries of NIH funding (Fauci)? What do we think he’s going to publish? Wasn’t he on Gilead’s board when they were pushing Remdesivir during early Covid patient protocols, sometimes after the viral replication cycle was complete? I don’t have answers, only questions.
One study of many bro.
"The authors limits include blah-blah the usual boilerplate, but they do not mention the biggest limit. The paper assumes that unvaccinated and vaccinated people are seeking medical care for covid and apart from covid ENTIRELY EQUALLY— which is almost surely not true.
The time course of the result is more plausibly explained by different health care seeking behavior. And we know unvaccinated people behave differently. It is simple to assume these results are driven by incidental COVID19 for the presentation of a heart attack, which occurs more often. And no evidence is presented to challenge this hypothesis."
This is a correct analysis that failure to reject other hypothesis means no one hypothesis is confirmatory. It does NOT mean that one hypothesis is incorrect.
Prasad is a goofball but having some "rational contrarians" is good for progress.
