........PSAC.......

No knock on platt here, but you threw your AA certificates in the garbage? There's some people like myself who would've given up a nut for one of those.

Heck, I have PSAC team trophies and some road race awards, that I'll never get rid of. If I somehow find Mrs. Dirt, she'll have to cope with them..

Anyway, quit giving McCabe a hard time. He means well and has the fearless prediction that Ben Hahn will be 2nd in the region. I argued with him for a bit at Paul Short saying Reagan will before I went on to bomb my race...

I have mixed feelings with what Platt shared with us all. I wouldn't go as far as to say that an All-America Certificate is not important, but Team Accolades are special.

While I can't completely relate to the team aspect of Cross Country, I understand the importance of the team. I, like Platt, have the pleasure of looking at a National Championship ring each morning as I leave my house, but it will never mean as much to me as the team title that we won at LHU. While it was merely a PSAC Team Title, it was the first that LHU won in 50 years, and something that our whole team was able to share.

Like I said, track is different than XC, but a team is a team...and it was a great experience to have.

When I was there, I think it went something like this. 2 bids to each region and 8 at large bids. These bids were doled out based on each regions performance at nationals. For every team in a particular region in the top 8 at Nat's, the region got 1 more at large bid.

Something like that. Kind of gay to hand out bids based on last years teams though.

this thing about picking on shizzy is getting really really old. i think he gets it now. some people might not like him or respect him. you said what you had to say. leave it at that. he does not really care.

i am having trouble remembering if this thread is about making fun of shizzy or talking about our bad ass conference. We have two teams (and some individuals) in our conference that could represent us real well at the national level. lets focus on that, and not on some kid who is hurt and must really suck for him not to be running right now.

-jorge

PSU will be a big test for the rock this weekend.

Definitely will be a barometer for where they are at. other teams going there?

Dirt wrote:

No knock on platt here, but you threw your AA certificates in the garbage? There's some people like myself who would've given up a nut for one of those.

I did not throw them out, I just never kept track of them and I assume that they eventually migrated to the curb.

Take my word for it on this: Keep the Nut, no matter what they offer in trade.

Actually, Ship didn't win the team race. They tied for the 4k race, but won on the tiebreaker. They didn't run anyone in the 8k race so they weren't eligible for the team championship.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Original Message

Author: dickinson invite

Subject: RE: Short and Short

Message:

Ship won the team race at the Dickinson Long and Short invite,

[quote]Ships point of view wrote:

1.

When you talk to people and they ask you how you were as a runner do you say i was "okay" or do you none conceitedly say i was an AA?

2.

And if nothing matters besides the team, then why did you run track?

3.

Team titles are important to me as well but to come on here and say that being classified as AA is pointless and that the only point of the race is to determine the team winner is bullshit in my opinion. quote]

Answers:

1.

I don't say a lot, but I tell people that I was a talented ahtlete as a kid. I don't bring up anything else unless asked specifically, and then I answer factually. You'll be surprised how little people know of this stuff in the real world(and it was only d-2, it's not like I was 4rth at the NCAA 5000 meters).

2.

My comment was referring to X/C not track.

3.

Your opinion is probably the popular view.

he meant the 4k race, which is where most of the teams ran their top runners

While I feel that some of Platt's comments are a bit narrow minded, I'd likely think along the same lines if I were him (IE, if I ran for the Boro in their hay days). One thing where I fundamentally and whole heartedly agree with him is on the issue of AA status versus team status. There is not doubt that when it comes to cross country, it is ALL about the team (more below).

With regards to the comment on the fact that the PSAC should have ever only had one team, I don't necessarily agree with that. I understand where you are coming from, because in most cases that team was the Boro. And there have been many years where the Boro should have been the only team at Nats. But, there was a year that Ship finished second at Nats...losing only to Boro. And, there was the year I mentioned previously when they got an at large bid to finish 4th at Nationals. IMHO, I believe that any team who finishes in the top 5 at Nationals deserves to be there...as any of those teams, on any given day has a chance to win.

Further, I personally believe that having more teams in the race actually makes it MORE of a team competition. If you really want to limit Nats to just a handful of teams, then every team should only run 5 runners. IMHO, teams get rewarded at Nats for having depth. There have been many years that Adams or Western have been able to place their 6th or even 7th man ahead of the #2 team's #5 runner...and that has made all of the difference. In a duel meet, that's only a few points difference, but in a large meet like Nats, it can be many more. In short, a team without a solid top 5 (which is the very essence of a team team) gets punished.

Also, while I don't have either a National Team title (or even top-3 finish) to my credit or Cross Country All American honors, I do know a few folks who do. And, to a T, all of them would trade individual accolades for a stronger team performance. Go ask Jeff Weiss which he woudl prefer -- a top 5 team finish for the Rock or an inidividual win at Nats and I'm sure he'd say the team placing. Not all would agree with this, I'm sure, but those who don't are likely very self-absorbed and/or have no clue as to what cross country is all about.

Hoovis

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mplatt wrote:

H2,

I was not commenting on the PSAC, but since you mention it, the PSAC should have never had more than one team ever qualify, not at least as long as I have been observing.

The fewer teams you have on the line the more likely you are to have a better race and more accurately define the best team.

I doubt the top three team finishers ever came from the same region (and if they did I am sure one would have received one of the at large bids) there is not a reason to select more than two teams from each region.

The meet is designed to award the Title to the National Team Champions. Second Place and Third Place are interesting to know, beyond that the results are meaningless. And as far as naming All-Americans: who cares, it's not important. When at the meet you are there to run in a fashion that best helps the team, not to provide personal glory.

I have six AA Certificates and cannot tell you where they are located – most likely they are in some landfill – but, I glance at my Team Title Rings every morning before I head out the door.

The meet is a team meet, to name the best D2 team; all the rest is simply superfluous.

***But, there was a year that Ship finished second at Nats...losing only to Boro****

I stand corrected.

But I still don't agree with larger fields.

For instance: If the fifth man of Team A is behind 5th Man of Team B, he/she should only be rewarded for catching the 5th man of team B, and in similar logic, team B should not be rewarded because other people passed the 5th man of Team B. A smaller race is a more focused race. Hell, it would be nice if they could slim the thing down to a 5 team meet. Think how exciting that would be and how focused the racers would be when they could see "exactly" who they had to "stick with", "catch", or "pass". Now that would be exciting, watching teams scores change at every 400 meters or so using chips and mats.

Ya gotta admit, it would create a much more true view of who beat who.

Yeah, you've definitely got something there. It's so damn tough for somebody really experienced to track what's happening at Nats. You try and count runners and estimate positions (if you're watching) but you never really know. And, if you're running, you really don't know...so, you just keep trying to pass people in hopes that it's enough. There is a piece of me that enjoys the "suspense" of not really knowing until final scores are tallied...but, I could see why what you propose could do a lot for increasing spectator participation. And, I've had the opportunity to run lots of fun/exciting races. But, to this day, my most exciting/fun race was a duel meet between my high school (Punxsutawney) and one of our two big rivals (Altoona). We had a 100+ consecutive duel meet wins streak on the line...and you knew EXACTLY who you had to beat to keep that streak. And, you could see the whole race and knew what was happening. We won by 1 point...now that IS excitement.Hoovis

mplatt wrote:

Think how exciting that would be and how focused the racers would be when they could see "exactly" who they had to "stick with", "catch", or "pass". Now that would be exciting, watching teams scores change at every 400 meters or so using chips and mats.

Ya gotta admit, it would create a much more true view of who beat who.

mplatt wrote:

... team B should not be rewarded because other people passed the 5th man of Team B.

That should read: ... team B should not be rewarded because other runners of little or no consequence passed the 5th man of Team A.

anyhow, I have opined more than I should have here.

The sport is about you guys now, not me...

train and race

team rankings from Hoovis, where they at?

Here's a prediction for you...

Carney 6th in the Oly Trials marathon.

Hoovis

what individuals will get to nationals...

who will be all region and all conference... Lets hear some predictions.

Everyone Chokes and Cheyney win's the Title. Yea the Regional Title that Is.

here is my prediction

Shizzy DNS, what a shame I was pulling for him to get last, retire, and get off of these boards.

Quit posting please shizzy, your making your team look like D-Bags

try reading back a couple pages, your only the 50th person to say this. i bet shizzy could beat you even when he has a stress fracture