Armstronglivs wrote:
Smorbun wrote:
I am no lawyer, and it is clear that both officers knew it was a taser he was pointing at them, so from that standpoint it doesn't appear the shooting was justified, but it still is a weapon that can render an officer helpless which would mean he could run back and grab the officer's pistol. Also, at that point they don't know if he has another weapon on him, and he has shown a willingness to point the one he does for sure have at them.
I don't like seeing anyone killed by a police officer, and George Floyd was murdered by that police officer in my opinion, but in the case you are describing, I think the officer who shot him gets off. It's not the same as what Chauvin did. I can't go so far as to condone it or even say it was justified, but I don't think he gets charged criminally.
He will. Wrongful and disproportionate use of deadly force resulting in death isn't a procedural error, it is a criminal act that removes self defense.
Yes. I have changed my opinion on this and stated so earlier.
Fat hurts wrote:
trump is a con-man, 30-40% of US too stupid to see wrote:
The bolded part of your post is an interesting point—I hadn’t thought of that. IF Trump loses in November—and that is a big IF—I wouldn’t put it past him to try something like that. He pardons Pence + others, then resigns, and then Pence pardons Trump—all between Election Day and Inauguration Day. I assume that is legally possible. Any lawyers on here know? Also, cam Pence pardon Trump for the many, many financial crimes he is likely guilty of that the SDNY is currently investigating? In other words, can their be some sort of all encompassing pardon that covers both Trump’s crimes in office and those he committed prior to office.
Pence could pardon him for any federal crime. The even includes crimes he has not yet been charged with.
However, Tiny would have to trust that Pence would do this. I don't think Tiny trusts him that much.
My bet is that Tiny just flees to Turkey before Biden is inaugurated. Tiny would remain president until January 20, 2021.
No way - the Turkish government, no matter how corrupt, would not risk creating a full blown enemy out of the US because of some traitor. Sure, they might welcome him now, but the day Biden take over trump would be toast.
SDSU Aztec wrote:
present, esq. wrote:
Not a chance. If he simply fled the country, say a month after an election defeat (I did say "if"), then there would not be nearly enough time for him to be impeached-and-convicted (and thus removed); and VP Pence would not invoke the 25th Amendment.
Not a chance.
He wouldn't need to be impeached and he would be removed immediately. It would be similar to a President becoming incapacitated. What kind of a country to you think we live in?
It would be too close to inauguration. They would just move up Biden’s start date.
The Fokus wrote:
present, esq. wrote:
Entirely false. See, for example, Gerald Ford's pardon of Richard Nixon:
" I, GERALD R. FORD, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, pursuant to the pardon power conferred upon me by Article II, Section 2, of the Constitution, have granted and by these presents do grant a full, free, and absolute pardon unto Richard Nixon for all offenses against the United States which he, Richard Nixon, has committed or may have committed or taken part in during the period from January 20, 1969 through August 9, 1974." [emphasis mine]
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Proclamation_4311Yep. I'm wrong on this one.
The problem is if trump suffers a disastrous beating in Nov the GOP would have very little incentive to give him this pass. They would be better off letting him hang high for closure and try to reconstruct the party. Sure they could make excuses and say it would be awful to go after an ex-prez but they get nothing in return for doing that.
SDSU Aztec wrote:
present, esq. wrote:
The President's being incapacitated falls under the 25th Amendment. The 25th Amendment requires the participation of the Vice President.
If IMPOTUS vamoosed a month after a lost election (again: IF), no way that VP Pence would invoke the 25th, with just a few weeks before Inauguration Day. No way. And no way a majority of the rest of the Cabinet would agree (another requirement).
"Section 4
Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President."
"...the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office..."
If he went into exile, the above would be a fact and not an opinion. Pence and the cabinet could not defend Trump. We are not like North Korea.
The GOP has become quite unamerican though...
Smorbun wrote:
Fat hurts wrote:
Pence could pardon him for any federal crime. The even includes crimes he has not yet been charged with.
However, Tiny would have to trust that Pence would do this. I don't think Tiny trusts him that much.
My bet is that Tiny just flees to Turkey before Biden is inaugurated. Tiny would remain president until January 20, 2021.
Yes, Pence could pardon Trump for any federal crime, and he can do it blanket style like Ford did for Nixon, meaning he can pardon him for crimes he hasn't even been charged with yet. I'm sure there's some restrictions there, but that's what Ford did for Nixon.
If Trump resigned, he would get Pence's assurance that he would pardon him first. Pence is likely in need of a pardon too, so the tit for tat is Trump pardon's Pence and then Pence pardons Trump. Would be a lasting example of how corrupt this administration is.
I will be shocked if Trump leaves the country to escape justice.
Trump would do anything to escape justice. It becomes clearer by the day why he has taken such a liking to dictators. He’s been setting up safe havens this whole time. Putin would take him 100%. Turkey still needs the US, they wouldn’t risk it.
Sounds like Trump’s 55 year old niece is going to try to nail him on tax fraud. And she has the goods.
There is no feud so vicious as a family feud.
Uncle Spanks is in trouble.
Trollminator wrote:
Smorbun wrote:
Yes, Pence could pardon Trump for any federal crime, and he can do it blanket style like Ford did for Nixon, meaning he can pardon him for crimes he hasn't even been charged with yet. I'm sure there's some restrictions there, but that's what Ford did for Nixon.
If Trump resigned, he would get Pence's assurance that he would pardon him first. Pence is likely in need of a pardon too, so the tit for tat is Trump pardon's Pence and then Pence pardons Trump. Would be a lasting example of how corrupt this administration is.
I will be shocked if Trump leaves the country to escape justice.
Trump would do anything to escape justice. It becomes clearer by the day why he has taken such a liking to dictators. He’s been setting up safe havens this whole time. Putin would take him 100%. Turkey still needs the US, they wouldn’t risk it.
Can you imagine an ex-President defecting? Someone with all the secrets? It’s boggling. No one would have ever have even considered it until trump. Because trump is the only president who puts himself in front of the nation.
Armstronglivs wrote:
America needs herd immunity against the disease that is Republicanism. The cure is an election.
You mean, Republican support will stop increasing once 60-70% of Americans support Republicans? You might be right on that...
agip wrote:
Trollminator wrote:
Trump would do anything to escape justice. It becomes clearer by the day why he has taken such a liking to dictators. He’s been setting up safe havens this whole time. Putin would take him 100%. Turkey still needs the US, they wouldn’t risk it.
Can you imagine an ex-President defecting? Someone with all the secrets? It’s boggling. No one would have ever have even considered it until trump. Because trump is the only president who puts himself in front of the nation.
Similar to others who have gone into exile, he would still retain a whole bunch of brain dead followers like trigged who would continue helping enrich him and giving him a voice. Exile is the last resort move though. Until the moment he realizes he lost on Election Day he will have played plenty of other moves. The question is what incentive does the GOP have to continue protecting this criminal after he’s no longer relevant?
Trollminator wrote:
agip wrote:
Can you imagine an ex-President defecting? Someone with all the secrets? It’s boggling. No one would have ever have even considered it until trump. Because trump is the only president who puts himself in front of the nation.
Similar to others who have gone into exile, he would still retain a whole bunch of brain dead followers like trigged who would continue helping enrich him and giving him a voice. Exile is the last resort move though. Until the moment he realizes he lost on Election Day he will have played plenty of other moves. The question is what incentive does the GOP have to continue protecting this criminal after he’s no longer relevant?
Think about the national security aspects of a defection...it’s incomprehensible. A president knows so much about the nations secrets.
Would be a cool movie tho.
agip wrote:
Think about the national security aspects of a defection...it’s incomprehensible. A president knows so much about the nations secrets.
You're assuming he read the briefings.
Trollminator wrote:
Smorbun wrote:
Yes, Pence could pardon Trump for any federal crime, and he can do it blanket style like Ford did for Nixon, meaning he can pardon him for crimes he hasn't even been charged with yet. I'm sure there's some restrictions there, but that's what Ford did for Nixon.
If Trump resigned, he would get Pence's assurance that he would pardon him first. Pence is likely in need of a pardon too, so the tit for tat is Trump pardon's Pence and then Pence pardons Trump. Would be a lasting example of how corrupt this administration is.
I will be shocked if Trump leaves the country to escape justice.
Trump would do anything to escape justice. It becomes clearer by the day why he has taken such a liking to dictators. He’s been setting up safe havens this whole time. Putin would take him 100%. Turkey still needs the US, they wouldn’t risk it.
I also think he will do anything to escape justice. I just don't think leaving the country will be it. I will be shocked if he does that. He has gotten into legal hot water many times, and he always gets off with next to no punishment. I believe he doesn't believe he will ever pay any penalty, certainly not prison, so he will just stay here. I could be wrong. Will be great theater if he does leave the country, but I don't see it.
6/14 Data
Good news - another day of improvement, measured by the rolling 7 day average of COVID deaths.
Both the globe and the US continued their improvements.
The US is down to 770 deaths per day, while a month ago that number was 1,426. This is not a jagged decline..it's very close to every day.
The world is down to 4,300 per day, compared to 4,666 a month ago. Also steady decline, although not as long-term as the US.
Daily new cases have been stalled in the US for a long time...really hasn't changed since May 11.
But of course the hot zone has shifted to Southeastern and Southwestern states.
Manhattan has just single digit deaths each day now. Texas actually went the right way in the rankings - down to 42nd worst state after being 41st for a long time.
Around the globe new cases continue to rise to all time highs, even as deaths fall off. No changes in the rankings of the nations I follow.
The big question continues to be the divergence between growing case counts and falling death counts. Why? Will deaths catch up ? Or is the rise in cases an artifact of some kind of testing anomaly?
agip wrote:
The big question continues to be the divergence between growing case counts and falling death counts. Why? Will deaths catch up ? Or is the rise in cases an artifact of some kind of testing anomaly?
OR . . . the virus could have mutated to less-lethal strains. Or the most vulnerable are being better protected, by themselves and/or others (or have already succumbed). Or better treatment protocols have been developed.
Et cetera.
agip wrote:
6/14 Data
Good news - another day of improvement, measured by the rolling 7 day average of COVID deaths.
Both the globe and the US continued their improvements.
The US is down to 770 deaths per day, while a month ago that number was 1,426. This is not a jagged decline..it's very close to every day.
The world is down to 4,300 per day, compared to 4,666 a month ago. Also steady decline, although not as long-term as the US.
Daily new cases have been stalled in the US for a long time...really hasn't changed since May 11.
But of course the hot zone has shifted to Southeastern and Southwestern states.
Manhattan has just single digit deaths each day now. Texas actually went the right way in the rankings - down to 42nd worst state after being 41st for a long time.
Around the globe new cases continue to rise to all time highs, even as deaths fall off. No changes in the rankings of the nations I follow.
The big question continues to be the divergence between growing case counts and falling death counts. Why? Will deaths catch up ? Or is the rise in cases an artifact of some kind of testing anomaly?
I think the answer to the last few questions is the proliferation of testing and probably timing discrepancies, especially when looking at the global numbers. I assume that with different tolerances for mistakes and fraudulent reporting, many countries are more than happy to show more infections (aka more testing) while number of deaths stay low.
kibitzer wrote:
agip wrote:
The big question continues to be the divergence between growing case counts and falling death counts. Why? Will deaths catch up ? Or is the rise in cases an artifact of some kind of testing anomaly?
OR . . . the virus could have mutated to less-lethal strains. Or the most vulnerable are being better protected, by themselves and/or others (or have already succumbed). Or better treatment protocols have been developed.
Et cetera.
true.. maybe many have also realized the orange hydro sauce wasn't helping.